Brit Lit Chit Chat with Brittney from Moms Talk Autism

This week on the Brit Lit Book Club Podcast, I'm doing something a little different! Instead of our usual author deep-dive, I'm joined by my friend Brittney for a chatty, catch-up style episode about all the literary adventures we've been having.

We're sharing all the details from Jane Austen's 250th birthday Regency party - yes, we dressed up in full Regency attire! We discuss what it's like to actually dance Regency dances, why Austen still captivates us 250 years later, and how Bridgerton has influenced modern Jane Austen celebrations.

Then we're diving into the new Hamnet film - discussing Jessie Buckley's portrayal of Agnes (Shakespeare's wife), the heartbreaking story of losing young Hamnet, and how personal tragedy became art in the form of Hamlet. We talk about what the film gets right about Elizabethan family life, and the plague.

Finally, Brittney shares her experience traveling on The Book Club Tour through England. From walking through Jane Austen's living room to exploring the Brontë moors, she talks about what it's really like to visit the places where your favorite British authors lived and worked - and how it changes the way you read.

Book Recommendations and mentions from this podcast:

Whether you're a Shakespeare fan, a Janeite, or dreaming of your own literary pilgrimage to England, this episode is for you!

An Assembly Such as This by Pamela Aidan

Duty and Desire by Pamela Aidan

These Three Remain by Pamela Aidan

Mr. Darcy, Vampyre by Amanda Grange

Love this podcast? Imagine walking the Yorkshire moors where the Brontës found inspiration, visiting Jane Austen's writing desk at Chawton, and exploring Shakespeare's birthplace with fellow book lovers. We do all this and more on The Book Club Tour!

Follow along with our adventures, or join us! 

🌐 Explore our tours: thebookclubtour.com
📸 Instagram: @thebookclubtour
👥 Facebook: @thebookclubtour

Transcript

0:03

Welcome to the Brit Lit Book Club podcast. Today is extra special. I have my friend Brittany joining me, and instead of our usual author Deep Dive, we're having a proper catchup about all things British literature. We just went to Jane Austen's 250th birthday party together, and we recently saw the new Hamnet film, and Brittany has been on one of my book club tours, so we have so much to talk about. Okay. All welcome, Brittany. Hello. So excited to be here. Welcome to the Brit Lit Book Club podcast. That's right. I'm excited that you're here too. Brittany, do you wanna just tell everyone a little bit about yourself? Tell'em about your podcast, what you do, maybe how we met? Sure. So we met because we're neighbors and we go to church together and our kids are very similar in age, so we're like, it's the trifecta of us. We should be best friends and we are Absolutely. So. Absolutely. But yeah, uh, we met just, you know, during the height of COVID, we really didn't get to hang out too much at first, but then eventually. Once we were allowed to interact with other people outside our house, right. It was awesome. And we just found out we had a lot in common. I love literature. I grew up reading a ton. I'm was that perfect age of the, I. Jane Austen Renaissance of the 1995 Pride and Prejudice BBC version, and then Onward fell in love and it was just, plus Emma. Right. We were just talking about the pal. Emma. Emma, how that both influenced us and our Yes. Our dress choices, my homecoming dresses were based on that movie. Yeah. My graduate, my eighth grade graduation dresses based on that movie. So yeah, it's just, it's. You know, very important text towards my life. And when they are ingrained in your mind at that impressionable age, it is carried throughout your whole life and you base everything off of that. And then, and here I am. So, yeah. That is very true. Well, yeah, I've literally based my entire life and career around British literature. There we go. I understand exactly what you mean. Let's talk a little bit about our tea.'cause that's always fun, right? Yes. Um, we're ha, I made Brittany some tea. She's over at my house and we're having Bird Blend's, bed knobs and broomsticks, which is yummy. I've smelled it at the store. This is the first time I've tasted it and it's really good. It's got apple pieces, hibiscus, elderberries came, meal, nettle rose, petals, rose, hip, lavender, jasmine bloom. And, uh, yeah, so all kinds of flowers. It's very sweet. It's sweet floral. Yeah, it's really good. Yeah. I'm, I'm trying to figure out what makes it so sweet in there. Probably the apple. Probably the apple, yeah. That would do it. Um, are, do you, um, but bed knobs and broomsticks, by the way, is a fabulous movie. Yes. If you have not seen that, if you are of the younger generations and do not know what that movie is. So good. Watch it with your kids. Yes. Go watch it. I get chills the last like, act still to this day when they It is. So I'm not, I won't say why. You'll know, you'll know it when you, you see it, but it's like it does things to me. It's amazing. So, um, I still love the music. Like I, yes. I'm like singing Portobella Road. Yes. I like at least once a week. I don't know why. Absolutely. I dunno why. Very catchy. Very, very, very catchy. And Angela Lansbury, she is just the best. She is amazing. Yes. I love her so much. Um. Yeah, I talked a lot about her too when I was in Torquay doing the Agatha Christie tour. Um, just about like murder she wrote and just about yes, murder, mysteries, murder she wrote. I know it's not the best show. That was another show that so good influenced me as a kid. I think that, um, you know, made me love murder mysteries and I just, I love that show. I, I was really close with my grandma growing up, but I think I've talked about before. And, um, you know, she was very into British literature and I lived in Scotland with her and we would drink tea and watch Murder she wrote and just, yeah. Feels like the perfect life actually. I know, right? I know. She was the best. I miss her. Okay. Um, so Brittany and I last night, no. What? I'm like, what day is it? It's Tuesday. It was two days ago. Two days? Okay. So two days ago, Brittany and I went to Jane Austen's 250th birthday party. Yes. For the Greater Sacramento area of JASNA, which is the Jane Austen Society of North America. Mm-hmm. Which, when I first heard it, I thought they were talking about jazz night and I was. Very, very confused. Me too. Um, so Jasmine, um, they put on this great party and Brittany and I went with also Brittany's aunt, who's also been on my tours. Mm-hmm. And we had a blast. So fun. We dressed up, right? Yes. Yes. Brittany's dress was so cute. Cute. Oh, I loved it. Last minute purchase, but we found something that works. It was amazing. I wore a dress that I wore in Bath to dance, and my niece made it. Cute and comfy, and I definitely sweat through that thing. It's time to launder it. It was, it was surprisingly, I was surprised at how. Athletic it was, yeah. To do those dances. Yes.'cause it doesn't seem like it would be, but it really is. Yeah. Like watching them, watching them, like on tv, you're like, oh, this is a cute little dance. But yeah, you're definitely breaking a sweat. Definitely. You're, you're moving around. It's a good little cardio, you know, medium. Mm-hmm. Range, cardio exercise, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they had dancing, which was great. And they had a, um, I guess we call it a caller. The dance caller. Mm-hmm. Yes. Um, and she was great. She had a little microphone on her and she walked us through all of the dances and how to do them, and they demonstrated the dances. And then we would perform the dances slowly and like walk through'em, and then we would put the music on. They had a live band there, so that was fun too. That was super fun. Yeah, it was amazing. Um, and then we'd, we'd do them and try not to mess up too badly, and we all did and everyone laughed and had fun with it. Anyway. It was, and it was great. Uh, I wonder how many mistakes they made. In Jane Austen's time if, yeah. They all knew those dances like by heart. You know, they practiced at home. I'm sure they probably had those down, but I'm sure there were a few, like Mr. Collins that Oh, I'm sure there were mistakes. Yeah. Have too much feet, right? Yeah. Or you get super nervous or whatever. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But you know, I, I bet you they rolled with it too. Yeah. It was interesting how they were talking about, um, the, the caller, I can't remember her name. They were talking about the dances, how during Jane Austen's time they moved from country dancing, which was like basically line dancing, but to like classical music. Yeah. And then they kind of transitioned into more of a waltz style dance Yes. Where like the man and the woman were touching each other and, you know, without a chaperone. And that was kind of like a big deal. Scandalous. So scandalous. Right. So I'm, I'm curious what kind of dances Jane Austen would've. Been doing more of, more of a waltz or if it would've been more of the country dancing. I think she was right in that transition. Yeah. So her childhood was probably more the traditional. Yeah. And then it moved into the waltzing as she was an adult, so she was probably okay with it.'cause she probably thought it was. The latest, greatest, coolest thing, you know, but maybe her parents wouldn't have been as she approved, we were also talking about at the party.'cause um, someone had a little book of manners, Jane Austen Manners. And, um, I know we talked about this during my last tour that, um, Brittany Shannon was on. Uh, we had a talk, um, just about, um. Protocols during that time and in the dancing, like if you went to a ball or a dance, you wouldn't be able to just like walk up and be like, oh, hey, my name's Vanessa. How are you doing? Nice to meet you. You would have to be introduced by a third party, right? Yes. And then you couldn't, um. What it was like if you turned somebody away, like for a dance. If somebody asked you and you said no, then you couldn't dance like for the rest of the night. Right. And only men could ask women to dance. Yeah. So if you said no to one man, you were out. Yes. Which is crazy to me. That's wild. What's the point then? Like why would you? Yeah. Yeah. And I think, uh, I'll have to fact check this, but I think during one of our talks we learned that if you danced with someone, you had to dance with them, like for two dances. I think usually it was, could be, it was like two or three or something. Yeah. Depending on the sets, maybe of the dance. Yeah. And how, how it was designed. There was some kind of role. So like saying yes to somebody was like committing, you know, a good chunk of your night. I mean,'cause those dances kind of went on, so. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, um, what else did we do at the party? Um. So just food, tea. Tea and, and small bites and very small bites. We all got some different books, which was fun. Oh yeah, that was fun. Oh yeah. Where are my bag of books? I mean, I, I got a couple that were really fun. So speaking of Pride and Prejudice, especially in Jane Austen and, the whole idea of. The dances and the waltzing, right. Versus the traditional country dances in one of my favorite adaptations of pride and prejudice. So it's the Pride and Prejudice timeline of the original book, but it's all from Darcy's perspective. It's my favorite series. It's a three book series. It's by Pamela Aidan, A-I-D-A-N, I believe, and the first book is called an Assembly such as This. The second is I've heard of Those Duty and Desire, and the last one is These Three Remain my absolute hands on favorite books. The audio is immaculate. If you're on Audible or wherever you get it, get those as well. I listen to'em at least once a year. But in that story, Darcy and Bingley are in London. He's taken, you know, Bingley away from Jane and from Elizabeth. So he, they can reset and you know, they don't want Bingley to fall in love with Jane or whatever. And so he takes'em away. And so you're with Darcy during that time when they're apart in, in the book and they go attend in an attempt to, you know. Try to distract himself from missing Elizabeth so much. They go to a ball, um, that is held by, uh, I think it's Lady Catherine Lamb of, and she was like, with board Byron, if it's like they, she, they use some historical figures that are like real people in there. Anyway, she's hosting this grand event and things and it's very fancy and very big, and the, the scandal of that dance is not only, uh. Miss Lamb's dress, which was inappropriate. Oh, like immodest? Im modest. But also they were dancing, they were waltzing. Oh. Oh, interesting. And that was the first time Darcy and Bley had seen it and probably'cause they were in London, right? They were in London country. It was like the, the height of the season and like it, so it was the latest, greatest thing. And Darcy was just like, I think he says it's indecent or something. And Bingley didn't know the dance. And he was like kind of, he was kind of sent to like. Entertain a young lady for a friend or something. So he's like, I didn't know what to do. So we just went over to the the counter and started eating biscuits. Being Lisa, he goes, I ate so many, I'm so full. Like I can't eat. That's like what I would anymore biscuits, because I don't know this dance. Like I don't know the dance. I'm gonna go to the food table. Yeah. And that's what it was so funny. Anyway, if that gives you a little snippet, I would highly recommend reading them. That's so funny. So is it all Pride and Prejudice all three of the series? Or is is it different? No, it's all pride and prejudice. It breaks it down. You are like every minute and it's. Really, really good. Must be more detailed than pride prejudice, then It's, it's, it is more detailed. Yeah. And there's a lot of time it, you know, it kind of skips over that period of time when Elizabeth and Darcy aren't together. Right. It kind of, you know, yeah. Speeds along the process, but you really go through what Darcy's going through and you really get into his inner monologue and his inner struggle of like how much he really, he just can't get her out of his head and it's driving him crazy. Yeah. It's so funny. Okay, so this is something that, uh, that you are a good person to ask and because I've heard of this. I've heard this brought up multiple times that Darcy was on the spectrum and that's why he's so like socially awkward. And I, sorry, I, I don't know if we've talked about your podcast. We haven't yet. Okay. So bring that up. Okay. We'll back backtrack just a second. Sorry, I meant to talk about that first. No, you're okay. Uh, so, uh, I have four kids and two of my children are, um, autistic. They've been diagnosed on the autism spectrum disorder. Um, my 19-year-old son. Very heavily impacted and very profound needs like 24 7 supervision. You know, he needs care. He'll need care for his entire life. And then my daughter, who's 11, she is more considered like there's levels now. Um, they keep changing the diagnosis process, right? But, uh, there's level one, two, and three. My son is a level three. My daughter's a level one, and she, um. She attends a public elementary school, but she attends. Part of her day is like in a special needs class and then part of it's in her gen ed class, like with her peers. So she can kind of like go back and forth between the two worlds. She has language, my son does not speak at all. He's not speaking, that kind of thing. So we kind of truly have like the spectrum. Mm-hmm. Autism in our house, like as far as different levels and abilities and like what we have to do to help care for them and, and help them, you know, grow and learn and hopefully be able to. Take care of themselves someday. But anyway, so yeah, I, I consider myself. And a, a reluctant expert in the field of autism. I am not autistic myself. I cannot speak to the autistic experience like as a person, but I can speak to it from the caregiver side. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And very intimately and very right expertly, reluctantly expert. So yeah, that's kind of my like, background in that. I have a podcast, it's called Moms Talk Autism. I run it with three other moms. Uh, we all live in different states in the US and we've been doing it for. Four years, five years. I always forget'cause we started it in January, so this will be our. I think we've completed four full years now. Wow. And uh, yeah, so it's been a wild ride. We've met people all over the world. I'm heavily involved in a lot of caregiving, uh, communities for all disability. Not just autism, but, um, and yeah, local groups, online groups, webinars, podcasting. Yeah, it's, you're such a great resource. Anybody you know that has a child with special needs that is just not, you know, feeling lost. Like I was just talking to you about my sister-in-law, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, I send them to you because you're such a great resource and you're so well connected in the community. Oh, thank you. It's been a joy to, when you finally get to a place having a special needs child or being in that, that world of disability, it can be very isolating at times, regardless of your diagnosis. It's very, you can feel very alone and very, um. Yeah. Isolated or, or cut off from. Mm-hmm. A typical life, I guess you could say. And once you start building that community, and once you find that community, it like it, it broadens your world. It doesn't fix everything for you, but you're able to maybe look more ahead than just the next hour or the next day or the next week of just survival mode. And then you're able to maybe even branch out and help other people. And that's. I mean, I'm not there all the time. Yesterday I couldn't do anything except survive the day. Yeah. And today I am here recording a podcast about, at literature. Yeah. So it just depends on what's going on in life, just like with anybody. But, uh, to be able to give back and like connect other moms and parents and caregivers and just be able to like, speak on it with, you know, my, my, just my own personal experience. Mm-hmm. I'm not a licensed therapist or anything, but just to be able to talk about it and help other moms maybe feel a little less alone. Yeah. It's very gratifying and. It fulfills a place in my heart, like, yeah, I think just people having someone else to talk to that has been there and gets it, you know? Yes. It's huge. Yeah. It, it change it, it helps. You with your mental health so much. Yeah. Um, you still have your issues, you still have your problems, you still, and whatever, but at least you know you have other people out there. You're not doing it by yourself. Yeah. We, we can at least take that piece away for you. Yes, yes. Yeah. You're not the only person dealing with those things. Yeah. Yeah. But Darcy. Darcy, yeah. An artistic person. So let, when you think about that theory, you know, I don't agree with it. Okay. I don't think so. Um, yeah, I don't have the expertise to say I like, to me, he was just, just like so awkward and, and rude. Right. You know, like, I think he comes around. I think what it mainly comes down to is, you know, he very well could be, could have been, uh, who's to say? I mean, there were, I'm assuming, you know, people with. Autism spectrum disorder back then, right? I'm sure there were. Yes. They just obviously didn't have a diagnosis or, you know, knew what to call it and quote like, higher functioning people could probably get by through society and do okay. Mm-hmm. The rigidity of the, the, um, social circles back then probably was. A little bit more helpful. Yeah. Right. Being able to keep things routine and, and the rules and regulations that sometimes if you're neurodivergent, that is a bomb and something that really kind of helps you navigate mm-hmm. Social situations because you, you know what to expect. It makes it more expected and more predictable, I guess. That's true. I guess things are more free today than they were then, obviously. Yeah, and, and, you know, but, but there's always variation in there. I, I, I would say no, just. I've read, I've read Pride, prejudice many, many times. Yeah. I've read other books obviously, as I've talked about. But to think that he's autistic, I would probably say no. And I, I draw a lot of my, my evidence would be from Elizabeth and Darcy's chat at Lady Catherine de Berg's house. Mm-hmm. Where she chides him for not practicing. Right. And he's very quick to point out that it's just not his personality. Right. To be. One to be gregarious or Yeah, extroverted. I would consider Darcy to be an introverted person. Definitely personality, definitely as am I, so I, I relate a lot to Darcy in that way, that, that we are observed first and then we interact. And you add the fact that he has all of the power. Mm-hmm. He's one of the most powerful people in England. On top of that, it's going to, and then people will assume you're. Being aloof as opposed to maybe someone more like bing bingley's an extrovert. Yeah. That's why they're such good friends.'cause they compliment each other. Yeah. But it also gives you an air of possibly being standoffish or rude. Yeah. Or hoity or whatever you wanna call it. And also maybe in that society when you had the money, you didn't have, you know, you had the luxury of acting like that where Absolutely. A didn't have the luxury of, you know, she, you know, was, had less money and had to, you had to make yourself more amenable to people. Yeah. Yeah. And, and he was. And he talks about that too at the end of the book where he's like, I was, this is how I was taught to be like, yeah, I was, I was given good principles, but but not told how to apply them correctly. Yeah. Which, yeah, we can all say about maybe our, some of our upbringing, right? Absolutely. Or how we're raising our children too. You know, like none of us. Are perfect. So, yeah. Makes sense. So, I don't know, that's just me. I, maybe there's more evidence in, I, I am not basing that on kind things. No, I just, I've heard that theory a few times. Yeah. So I thought you'd probably be the best person to ask as a lover of, uh, lover of Jane Austen and someone who knows all about that. So if you read the Pamela Aen books, I would, you're gonna even learn more if that's, if that's your Darcy. It's definitely my Darcy, yes. Right, right. He's not, he's a very involved, caring, warm individual who just. Is a little bit more guarded when he meets people for the first time. Yeah. Yeah. And that's all I can get that. I get that. Yeah. Um, does she, does Pamela Aiden, does she write anything? Um, anything else like from I've looked Jane Austen perspectives? I've, I don't think so. I'm dying. I know. That'd be so great. She would've kept writing things, but I don't think she did. And these are not new books either. Okay. They've been out for quite some time. Yeah, I've heard of them. I've not read those. Yeah. Check it out for sure. Yes. Okay. Speaking of adaptations, I was gonna pull out the books. That some, so all everybody that went to the party got a different bag of books. I don't know that there were any repeats. I don't think I saw any repeats. I didn't see any, which was like so impressive if you think Yeah. There were what, like a hundred people there? I would say 75 to a hundred people. Yeah. And they all had a different bag of books and they were all Jane Austen and they probably had like, what, five or six books? Mm-hmm. Per bag. So I got Mr. Darcy's obsession by Abigail Reynolds. It looks maybe like a BOA stripper. I'm not sure. I'm gonna find out. Hope so, hope I'm gonna find out. It looks fun. If it is, you'll have to let me borrow it. I can't remember which book you thought. I got one that was called Mr. Darcy Comma Vampire. Oh, that sounds fun too. Okay. I flipped through it. It's it, it starts the day of their wedding. And Elizabeth realizes that Darcy is more than what he seems. Oh, and he's been hiding more things. Okay. I'm gonna have to borrow that. So, I don't know. I have no idea the quality of it. I don't know the author right yet. Yeah. We're not recommending these books. These are just books that we got for free. So that was the most one. I was like, okay, this looks like a ride. I know I'd be into that. I'm into van hires, you know, my obsession. Twilight. Right? I mean, it's, it's. Once again a, a product of our upbringing. Yes. Oh, absolutely. Okay. This one's Jane Austin visits London. It's by Quinn. It looks kind of cool. It just has like all the places that little novella she went, you know, she went to London a few times to see her publisher and all that. Mm-hmm. And then what else did I get? This is like a magazine. Jane Austin Regency World looks like a magazine. That's kind of cool. I just thought it was neat how everyone got different books and they were all just completely different. Yeah. But all Jane Austen spinoffs, you know, she just inspired so many people. Love it. Okay. Why do you think Jane Austen still resonates so much 250 years later? This is a fabulous question. There's whole books and seminars and college courses on this. Yes, I believe, and I, I tend to agree with the experts. She. Speaks on relationships, and she's a social com commentator. Mm-hmm. Like, it's about, she's commenting on society in a very cheeky way. Very cheeky, very cheeky. And it's, but it's subtle. It's very, it's not with a heavy hand. Yeah. And so that's where the, um, expertise and the, I mean, just the genius of it is Yeah. Is because she did it in such a slight. It's like a watercolor painting, right? It's just very subtle and like pretty and abstract almost. But then when you step back a little bit and look at the whole picture, you're like, there's a lot to say here. Yeah. A lot. And, and podcasts worth, right. Podcast worth. Exactly. And, and she still, uh, a lot of those same things that they were doing in this very rigid, very structured, very gender-based, class-based society. You know, very monochromatic. Mm-hmm. Or everyone's white, you know? Yep. We don't have a lot of culture or diversity or anything, but even in that, there's still so much that you can glean from that and pull into to today's society, which is very, very different when you look at it at the surface, but still some of those same things still come up over and over and over again. Absolutely. I have a whole podcast episode about, yeah. You know, basically how our society. You know, it kind of mirrors that even though it's so different that we still have a lot of the same, there's still socially much overlap. Yeah, exactly. Especially in relationship and dating and love. That's and love. Yeah. That's why, that's why, you know, we can watch Pride and Prejudice and still like get giddy about it. Right. Yeah. We get that. Um, another thing that, um, you know, I talked about this on a previous podcast, but that she basically invented the free and direct style where she's, you know, the narrator is speaking, but you're also getting like Elizabeth's. Thoughts Yes. From the narrator. Um, which I mean, I don't know if she did that intentionally or if it was just how her brain worked. Yeah. You know? But hopefully both. Probably both, right. Yeah. So it's just, I dunno, she's just so impressive to me. Okay, so transitioning. Mm-hmm. So Brittany and I went and saw Hamnet last week in the movie theaters, and, um, well, let's just talk about what we, what we thought about it. Neither of us have read the book. No. So we don't really have anything to compare it to, so I apologize. But, um, you know, we heard lots of things about the book. Yes. And we know a lot about Shakespeare. Um, so, uh, what, yeah, what were your first impressions about Hamnet? So, my first, so it was directed by Chloe xo, um, and I, she's directed a few movies that. I've liked. So I was a little nervous going in because I've seen some of her works before. She, she was, do you know what other movies she does? She did. The um, are, do you guys watch Marvel? You guys probably don't watch any of the Marvel stuff. She did the Eternals. Okay. Which was not, um, well received. Okay. It wasn't one of the best Marvel movies. That's why I haven't seen that. Probably not. Um, and she, I, I can't think of all the other ones off the top of my head. She did No Ma Nomad land. That one some, um, that was critically acclaimed. Uh, but yeah, so I was a little nervous going in, but Chloe j was very, she's, she tends to have a lot of her movies tend to have a lot of, um. Nature nature's a huge theme mm-hmm. In all of her films, along with, um, you know, and, and when you focus on nature, there's a lot of environmentalism and kind of that mis the mystique and the, um. Spiritualism around nature. There definitely was a lot of that in Hamnet, ton of it. And so I, I don't know how much of that is in Hamnet. I believe there is some too. I've read too synopsis and things about the book. I've listened to other critics talk about the book, but I have not read it myself. Um, but yeah, it sounds like there, that is also in the novel, but she really highlighted it and really talked a lot about, or um, showed a lot about that in. The visuals of the story. Yeah. And the cinematography and things, which I thought was super, super cool. But what made me really wanna see it is like, I don't know, I just love Shakespeare and I, I saw I'm probably just the trailer. Yeah. And just knowing what, knowing what I did about the book, I knew it was gonna be a sad story. Mm-hmm. We brought, we brought the tissues, we got spoilers here. Right. We're gonna talk about spoilers. Spoilers, spoilers for Hamnet. Um, definitely go see the movie first if you don't want to be spoiled. But yeah, it's very sad, tragic story. And it's based on like the tiniest little bit of like historical truth. Yeah. Because we really don't know anything, uh, hardly anything about Shakespeare and certainly about his wife or his children or his family. Yeah. Um, other, I think we know that he had a son that died. Yes. We knew his name was Hamnet. Yes. That is basically all that, basically all that we know. And he lived in London most of the time and his family did not. Yeah. And, and that's kind of it really. Yeah. Um, if you've never read the book Shakespeare, I think the World is Staged by Bill Bryson. Read that and you will find out how little we know about Shakespeare. Brittany Reddit for our tour I did a couple years ago. So it's, yeah, you learn nothing, but you learn how much. Like, nobody knows, but you learn a lot about the time, but it's really good. Yeah. And you and the rest is just conjecture and that's okay. It's okay to just have a story based on maybe a couple of like, snippets of information and then we, it's a lot of historical fiction like that, right? Yeah, of course. Most of it is. And, but it's, it's fascinating and it's, and we knew it would be a sad story. We brought a whole box of Kleenex with it. We definitely use them. Mm-hmm. And, um, but it was just, it was beautiful. It was, um, visually very, um, satisfying to watch. Yeah. I felt like I. It felt like I was watching, I don't, I don't know how to describe it better. It felt like watching a Shakespeare play, but in movie form, like it had a lot of theatrical feels to it. Now, the last scene of the movie is literally in the Globe theater. Mm-hmm. Watching that was cool. Parts of the Hamlet production. So yeah. Yes, there's that. But even just like being in Stratford upon Avon with the family and the kids, you're interacting, or you know, Shakespeare and his dad are together or whatever it is. Um. It felt very like, like stage, like in some aspects. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I like how you were telling me earlier, um, you know, it's almost like one person will like walk off the screen, another person will walk on, you know, just the way that people were moving the camera didn't necessarily pan and follow people. It would stay stagnant. Exactly. And people would move in and out of the frame of the camera. Yeah. More like watching a stage versus watching the stage. That's how it works for stage. So it wasn't like that in every single scene, but it certainly was. Um. The, it, it was, I think it was purposeful. Mm-hmm. I think it was done that way on purpose to kind of harken back to that feeling. And I really, I noticed that and I really, really liked that. I loved the use of color in the movie too. Yeah. Um, Shakespeare's wife, so in the book or in, in the book and in the movie, they called her Anya. Oh, I think it was Anya, ag. Ag Agne, ag Agnes, I don't know how I, I couldn't figure out how they were saying it. I was like, why are they, yeah, it was a couple different ways. But like Agnes, but like that, like Anya. Anya, I dunno know, I don't if they were saying it, but it's an, it's also Anne, like if you read her name in books, it's Anne Hathaway is where her name is. There was just like a lot of liberties with names back then. And I think it was, it was like Hamlet and Hamlet are the same name and Agnes and Ann are the same name, you know? Yeah. Stuff like that. I guess that's just how they rolled back then. Yeah, I guess so. Uh, nicknames or whatever. Yeah. But yeah, she was always in, um, a deep like warm color. Mm-hmm. Like red or orange, a deep orange or a red, or like a brown. And that was her color. And William Shakespeare was always in like a blue, a blue, a gray, blue, green. Yeah. Or a green. Yeah. And it was so interesting to kind of see how that worked with. The backgrounds of stuff, you know, and the outdoor scenes with the trees and I don't know, we can get into all of that too, if you want, but yeah, it was very, very nature focused. I mean, the whole like promise at the beginning is she's kind of like this like. Uh, forest Witch, right? Yeah. That comes up. They call her, I think, and that's, if you were being derogatory, that's what you would call her. But she's a healer. She's a, she's one with nature. She understands. Yeah. She goes out into the woods to have her babies and, you know, she's definitely very connected to nature. Yeah. Which is interesting'cause there's, I mean, a lot of nature and Shakespeare's plays as well, but I, I did love the scene at the end where. Like Hamlet is being performed and she's watching, and at first she's like, I don't get it. You know, I don't get it. This isn't like why this isn't about my son. Right. She, she, it was more than just like, I don't understand. She was angry. Yeah.'cause she thought it was almost like blasphemous. Yeah. But she thought, you know, her husband had named this play after their dead child and. It was treating it lightly or, or irreverently, I guess. And that wasn't necessarily, when she calmed down and saw what the play was really about, she realized, oh no, this is, this is a tribute to him. Yeah, exactly. So, and that whole scene at the end, oh my gosh. Where the sobbing, I was sobbing. I know where Hamlet is. Like, I mean, he's already dead. Right. The little boy and he's like the cutest little boy too. He's such a good job. Oh my gosh. So cute. And then we figured out too, the um, it's like some little trivia was the boy that played Hamnet and then the teenager, I guess, that played Hamlet at the end. They were brothers, right? Yes. In real life. In real life. They were brothers, which was cool.'cause they looked similar, right? Yeah. Anyways, the ham up little boy was so cute. But there's this, you know, whole scene where he's like. He's dead already, but he like, you know, they portray him as, he's like, kind of like trapped in this like stage and he's like crying and, and then at the end of the play he kind of like, like his spirit is released or whatever. Kind of like he's able to move on cry thinking about it. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was really beautiful. It was very like metaphorical, very, you know, very artistic. I've heard a lot of critic. Kind of ding it for being a little too on the nose or a little too very direct, kind of banging you over the head with it. But I don't know, I, it didn't bother me in this production. Yeah. I thought it was, the emotion was high enough. I didn't feel like I was being manipulated for manipulation's sake. I felt like it was purposeful and there was a reason. I don't know, and maybe it's just because of my own grief process of whatever I'm going through, but I felt it was very cathartic, so I enjoyed it. Yeah, I enjoyed it as well. It was good. Good for a good cry, you know? Yeah. Even if you're not a crier. I am. And I'm not, but I, I loved, yeah, sometimes it's good. Yeah. It'll make you feel, at least if you're, if you know, if you don't cry, it'll make you feel For sure, for sure. It was good. Okay. Let's see. Oh, let's talk about the relationship between Agnes or ag, how you say her name, I'm sorry. And Shakespeare. Um, they, I mean, he, she was several years older than him and. In In real life. In real life. Yes. Yes. Um, I feel like in the movie he looked like he was like 35 years old and he's supposed to be like 18 or something when they get married. Oh, okay. Um, and supposedly she was pregnant when they got married, so that they, I feel like they portrayed that. Correctly. Mm-hmm. Um, but I did love their relationship. It was very much like, and I, I don't, I doubt this really was how it was at the time, but yeah. Um, you know, it was like she would see wish what she needs and he would see what she needs, you know, it was definitely more of a modern type of relationship where I, I don't think. Back then. It was really like that. But, you know, we could pretend Right. We can. I, it seemed like it was a, a very much a mutual partnership built on love and respect. Yeah. And they really truly supported each other. She really supported him in his dreams of becoming a playwright and what he needed to feel. He was a tortured, you know, he's portrayed as a tortured artist. Yeah, very much. And, and in a horrible situation with his father and just, you know. Needing to do other things to feel like he can even live. Um, whereas she was also misunderstood in her own way, um, with her, you know, herbs and, and modern medicine. You know, we consider Right, you know, true medicine and being able to really help people with their ailments. Back then it was seen as witchcraft. Mm-hmm. And so, but they, they accepted each other completely for who they were. And that's a very modern, yeah, very, very modern. I, I hope that's the relationship that they had. I don't know. I mean, she did get the second best bed, so I dunno. But beds were really expensive back then, so, I mean, maybe his first best bed, I don't know. I don't know who that went too. I dunno. Oh yeah, I was gonna talk about, um, Shakespeare as a father in, in the movie too. Like he, you know, he's portrayed at least that he loves his kids, loves spending time with them. Best dad ever. Best dad ever. Right. Which also, I dunno if that's how it was, but maybe, but I mean, I have to think if he wrote an entire play kind of. You know, dedicated to his son that passed away that have to think that, you know, there was some affection there even though he lived apart from his family. Yeah. So often I some kind of relationship. Yeah. There's definitely affection and love there. Yeah. In whatever Yeah. Way that was portrayed for them. Yeah. I'm not sure the actual death scene was like. Horrendous. Yeah, it really was. I mean, it was like, ugh. It was really, really gut wrenching. Um, you know,'cause they've got the plague, right? Like the twins and, yes. Oh, and then the sister, Ugh. Okay. It was, it was a lot. I wanna say once again, those kids, all the kids were amazing actors. This is amazing. This is a really small cast of people in this, in this much like a play. Mm-hmm. Um, and so there weren't a lot of like extras or like. Large, you know, crowded scenes or a lot of characters in the movie itself, but those kids, man, they, they found the best kids to play those parts really, really heavy. Hard, yeah. Like emotional deep parts. And they did that beautifully. And I love, it was so hard to watch, but I did love that scene because. That little boy carried that scene. He's alone with his sister, who's very, very ill and not conscious, I don't even think. Mm-hmm. She's, she's barely cohesive and, and he's the one carrying this death scene by himself. It was gut wrenching and, but at the same time, like. I was so enthralled and impressed that it didn't like destroy me. Yeah, right. Yeah. I'm curious how long that took to film. You know, I would be curious to know as well. We have, we'll have to watch a behind the scenes or something. Yeah. That must have been like a, like emotionally devastating film to see, you know? Yeah. Just for the kids. I mean, I know you're just acting, but still, I mean, I have kids that are in theater and you know, you really get into those roles I think, especially when you're take a few days to get out of it again, I imagine. Yeah. Yeah. I think about like Heath Ledger and Oh yeah. Joker, right. And how that affected him and Exactly. Oh, let's talk about the plague and how it shaped the story. We kind of talked about that already with them, but, um, just everything. I like the whole, you know, like the OCD, like germaphobe in me was like, oh my gosh, there's a plague. Like, don't go near them. And like, the mom's all over. I mean, obviously you would be with your kids, you know, but I just. I, I don't know about like how much they knew about germ theory and anything like that. I don't think they knew anything. I don't think germ theory really came in into play until the 18, hundreds years later. Right. Yeah. I, I don't think it was a thing. You can see why everybody got sick, you know? We just don't know. I mean, I'm sure they knew to stay away, but I don't know. I'm just like, oh, look. Oh, don't breathe. Oh, no. Like, don't let the kids sleep, you know, in the same bed. You know, disinfect, disinfect. They had no clue what any of that meant. Yeah, no, they did not. Oh, it's, I always watch things from, back then I thought they did a. Fairly I had, I thought they did a good balance because it is a movie we are in modern day. You don't wanna gross anyone out. Right. At the same time, you want it to be somewhat, historically accurate or at least like, you don't want it to be completely take you outta the movie where you're like, well, yeah, yeah, there's a cell phone in the back corner, or, and whatever. Or a water bottle or something. But they did. I think they did a fairly decent. Amount of like showing how dirty everything can be mm-hmm. Without being like disgusting. Yeah. Like the muddy streets and lots of muddy streets. Lots of muddy hems. Yeah. Lots of like hands that had dirt under their fingernails. Yeah, that's very true. It was, it was good to see a little touch of that. Yeah. And the, the clothes were never like pristine. Everything was a little rumpled and you know, the houses too, you know. Yeah. The houses were very, seemed very lived in, um. I don't know. I'll have to look and see where they filmed this, but, um, I just went to Anne Hathaway's house this last year. Mm. And the interior shots of where she is like, you know, interacting with her family before she gets married, um, looked so much like the actual interior of, you know, I mean obviously it's kind of been, parts of it have been redone, but I was wondering if they had filmed it in there'cause it looked so, I wouldn't be surprised. I was like, wow, that's like, I was just there. So I'll have to go look and see where they filmed some of that. And um, and actually an Anne Hathaway's, Anne Hathaway's house. Right now there are orchards and you can buy honey and that's cool. So when she was like walking through the, the orchards there, like the farmland there, I was like, oh, it's actually still kind of like that, surprisingly. So to see there's little sea with the honeybees too. Yep, exactly. Yeah. In the movie. Yeah. Yeah. So you can buy, you can buy Honey from Anne Hathaway's house. If you go to Stratford, if you go on my tour. Okay. All right. I don't wanna say anything more about Hamnet. I would just go see it if you can, um, go see it with a friend if you can. Someone who you trust to see you cry. And, and I will say like it, if, if pacing is an issue, I know for all you young people who, you know, social media every 15 seconds, you have to have something different in front of your face. Like, I'm just as prone to that as anyone else. It is a slower moving plot at the beginning. I promise it's worth it. You know, take your time, put your phone down. If you can't go see it in the theater, please put your phone away. Really pay attention. Really enjoy. Watch it in a dark room. So the colors and the ambiance and the music and all of it comes together. And then that last 30 minutes. Yeah, put your phone on do not disturb. If you haven't had the willpower to put it down and just live in the moment. It, it's. It's so good. I can't wait to watch. Watch it again. Yeah, I'm ready to watch it again. Is it out yet? I don't think so. I don't think so either. I haven't seen it anywhere, but yeah, I'm excited to watch it again. Hopefully by the time you publish this it will be out. It's true. Okay. All right. So Brittany's been on my book club tour. Do you wanna talk a little bit about your experience and it's been, what did you go? 2023. Three. So it's been a couple years, about two and a half years. But I think you had a good time. Oh my gosh. I had the best time. It's the best trip I've ever been on in my life. I'm not exaggerating, I'm not just saying that'cause I'm sitting here with you. Um, I absolutely loved it. It was a dream come true. S like you and I are very similar. We, we like many of the same things. So for you to, you've made a tour that you would enjoy and since I love all the things you love. Yes. I enjoyed it. Of course. So I loved, um, I went with my mom and she's also a biblio file and a British Biblio file, so she's delightful. Yes. We had a blast. We got to experience it together. It's something we still talk about often. Aw. And we just had a wonderful experience. We went in September. We, uh, we had the best weather. Yeah. We could have one day of rain, right. One day of rain. We were there for like. Two weeks. Yeah. One day happened to be the one day we were boating. But yes, that was an experience. But it memorable. Right? Either a good time or a good story. It was a very good story. I still talk about that today too.'cause there was spiders as well. Oh yes. It was a whole experience. We can talk about'em more if you want, but Woo. Uh, but yeah, we survived to tell the tale and uh, but yeah, I mean, just to have such beautiful weather the whole time we ended up buying. Like summer clothes when we were there.'cause we packed all this like kind of layers and like sweatshirts and things. It's September, it's, you never know. You never know. I was just there in July and we had more rain and it was cold. So you just never know. Yeah, you just never know. So, but we ended up, we were so hot all the time. I ended up buying a couple of beautiful dresses there. In Bath. You had to shop in England. That's the worst. I still wear them. I love them so much. I take very, very good care of them because. I, I don't ever want to, you know, not have those dresses. It's, it's a souvenir I can always carry with me and I get to wear every once in a while. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. That's the best. When someone's like, oh, where did you get your dress? In England. In England, sorry. And they don't ship. Sorry. Sounds like touch. Yeah. Oh, it's funny. Well, I'm glad you came on my tour. I'm glad your mom came. And then your aunt also came on my last tour. Yes, my Austin and Agatha tour. So that was really fun. And she came to the Jane Austin Regency Party with us last or two days ago, and that was. Super fun too. So she loves all that kind of stuff too. Yeah, it was so much fun. Um, and our, she had a lot of fun with it. She knew way more ay stuff than I did. Oh, okay. Like she was kind of like sparring with the guide'cause she like, she knew so much she know this. That was Shannon. Good for her know. I was really impressed. I was like, man, you really did your research. It's impressive. It was really fun. Okay. What's the most memorable location that we visited on your trip? Okay. This is not fair. This is not a fair question because hard to answer. It's super hard to answer. We saw you packed so much into that trip. That was, that was the best part is I felt like I really got to see so much I, if I had tried to plan something like that, I would've gotten maybe not even half of what you got in, but you've really fine tuned it. To see a lot of things. So we started off in London and then our first spot was Bath and we stayed there for three days, but that was kind of like the hub. And we would go out every day and go see something else and then come back to Bath in the evenings. So Jane Austen spent a little bit of time in Bath, and so that was kind of the reason why we were there. Yeah. But she. Historically, you know, famously infamously did not. Mm-hmm. Like Beth. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, but there's so many cool things there. Just the, his history around the city itself, or the township or whatever it is Yeah. Is, is amazing. And there's so many cute shops and they really catered to the tourist there. Yes. I could spend a week in Beth and you would see Totally. You could see so much and still have so much fun. We did, we did the um. The spa, the thermal spa there. Mm-hmm. The Roman spas. Yeah. Roman baths. That was, we took in the waters. We took the waters, yes. As Jane would say. And that was super fun. And then, um, we went to, uh, Jane Austin's home and her brother's home. That was really cool. That was probably, um, prob, I don't wanna say least favorite'cause I loved everything, but that was lower on the. Uh, list for me, just because I kind of knew so much about that already. Yeah. Everybody has their own version of like, if you didn't know any much about Jane Austen, that would probably super fascinating. But I knew enough about that, that that wasn't as interesting as some of the other things I saw. Yeah. You probably learned a lot more of the other locations. Exactly. Exactly. So I, I really enjoyed that. The Lake District with Beatrix Potter mm-hmm. Was amazing. And then, uh, I think the part that I. I dunno. I really love Bath. I wanna go back to Bath just to see that and just experience that on its own. Um, but the, uh, I, oh my goodness, the name is Esca escaping me. The Darcy's house. Oh. Um, uh, Chatsworth. Chatsworth, berley. That was, um. That was a religious experience for me. It was amazing. I loved the house. I loved being inside the house. It was so overwhelming. It was almost like it's huge. Too much. It is huge. Like I couldn't take it all in. I think I would need to go back. Mm-hmm. But where I really had my religious experience, my was walking the grounds and I went off. I didn't even. My mom and I did a lot of stuff together, but I just took off on my own and I walked around by myself for probably a couple of hours. The grounds are gorgeous too, and I just took it all in and I just quietly reflected to myself and it was the perfect day outside. We really lucked out that way. I wore my dress, I bought in bath, and I just soaked it all in, and that was probably. The, the most meaningful and memorable experience for me was doing that part. Um, as far as like learning new things or experiencing stuff. We went and saw, um, Macbeth at the Globe Theater. That's right. And I loved it. It was a slightly modern take on the play. It was not done in period as specific. It was more of a, wow, I don't know. I'm trying to remember. It was almost like, it was like a futuristic, like kind of like almost alien sort of take on it. It it wasn't, it wasn't, yeah, it was, it was definitely more modern, modern day, but it didn't really have like a, a specific time period, I guess you would say. Yeah. It just felt futuristic to me. The witches were men in that one and they wore hazmat suits. That's right. Yeah, that's right. And you're thinking, okay, this. So like stupid. I know. No, it worked. It worked. Every time I see something at the Globe I'm like, this is gonna be weird. Like, they just did like Romeo and Juliet, Western style and like cowboy style? Yeah, like a, like American Western style, like American style. Okay. And then, um, what was it, the Tempest, they did like. Uh, love Island style. Like the main guy was probably 70 years old. He was wearing a yellow speedo. I'm not kidding. But it worked. But it worked right? It worked. I don't know. They know what they're doing now. Every time I'm like, oh, I don't know, like even Macbeth, I was like, oh, I don't know how to feel about like Macbeth's a very bloody sad, like tragic play. But they, I was so impressed that they put so much humor into it. Yeah, they really did. Really impressed because I was like, I'm gonna be bored. You know? I love Shakespeare. Yeah. But I'm more into like the comedies, the love stories. Me too. So I was like, I don't know how this is gonna be, but I ended up loving Macbeth. I absolutely loved it. I learned so much.'cause I did a little research. I wanted to make sure I really understood the place so that then I could just soak it in, not be like, what's happening here? Yeah. Like I just wanted to enjoy it. So glad we did that. The best thing you can do if you, this is. I dunno this happy accident, but if you are gonna go see Shakespeare, especially over in England, or you know, a period performance and you're like, I'm not really familiar with the story, you can read this. The, the play That would be ideal. Yeah. That's wonderful. Or even a syn synopsis, but read a children's book on it. Yeah. Remember we had the, I brought it, it was the US born. I had'em on my shelf over there somewhere. I have'em too. I brought, I brought a copy too, and on our way to London to go see the play, we read the children's story out loud, out loud, everybody out loud in the bus. Right. And it made them experience so much better for all of us to just kind of have it in our head in a way that made, like in modern day English, you know? Absolutely. So anyway, that was really cool. Um, I just love that. And another like, kind of just moment I had. We were all together, but we went to Sherwood Forest. Oh yeah. And we saw the, the robin tree. I thought we did that tree. And it was just, I don't know. We were there for like an hour. Yeah. Like it was just, it was like a bathroom break, a bathroom break thing. See the forest. It was so fun. I loved it. And then we went through the a hundred acre wood with, you know, a AML and poo's corner and all that. I don't know, I just loved all those little like kind of. English countryside. Yeah. Like in the woods moments that we had. Yeah. Especially with good weather. And it was amazing weather, so it was, that helps. Yeah. It was, it was wonderful. And I really loved, uh, going to the Bronte's and all of their home and being able to, um, is that how you say it? And that's not how you say Bronte, is it? Either way. You can say it either way. Okay. Either way is acceptable. I'm saying it wrong. I'm sorry. No, you're fine. Um, but, uh, but they're just hearing more about their childhood and their home and just. Really learning more about the siblings. Mm-hmm. Not just the girls. Yeah. But their brother. Especially Branwell Branwell and just crazy branwell. Oh man. It was, it was really quite tragic. It reminded me a lot of the Hamnet movie actually. Yeah. Right. In, in some ways, a lot of tragedy, a lot of death. It, it's, it's no wonder they wrote the way they did those, those girls, uh, had so many. Emotions and feelings and just, oh, they just had to get them out. They, it's like it was going to like ruin them if it was gonna destroy them, if they didn't get it on the paper. And you can just feel that when you're there and, and reading their, their story. So yeah. Brittany and I are going to go see the new Weathering Heights next month. Oh, is it next month? It comes out? It's February. It comes out I think. Valentine's Day. Oh yeah. So we're gonna go see that, right? We are, we are. I'm making her see all of the Brit lit adaptations with me. We're gonna watch Romeo, Juliet, it's, you're not making me do anything. I am more than happy to. We did. We watched much to do. What was it, a couple months ago? Yes. I want to do about nothing. Had a blast. Yeah, it was great. So Emma, the Thompson, we decided that we need to watch all of the shakes. Spears, all of the J Knot. We're gonna watch everything and then we're gonna come chat about it. Let's do it. Yeah. I'm so excited to do this. Like I don't have another outlet, another person. I can talk to my mom about it and I love to talk about it with her, but I don't have like another person locally here Yeah. Who I can like geek out about this stuff with. Yeah. So I am, I'm always happy to geek out about this. Me too. It just, it brings me so much happiness and joy. I'm so glad. Well, thanks for coming on my podcast. Your Anytime did so much. Anytime. I loved it. Thank you for having me. It's so fun. Tell us, uh, one more time where we can find your podcast. Yes. So it's called Moms Talk Autism. You can just Google that. The website is that. The Instagram is at Moms Talk Autism. The, you know, go to Apple podcast, type it in, we pop right up. There's a picture of us, four ladies, there's myself and three co-hosts. You'll see us. We're like all sitting down. All cute. Yeah. In mad and coordinating outfits. Love that. Um, and, and that's us. So yeah. And we've got, uh, we're close to 250 episodes Wow. Deep now. Um, on a variety of different subjects. Some of them are just us talking. US moms, a lot of them are. Professionals and experts or other moms from all over the world talking about disability and caregiving and you know, the good, the bad, and the ugly. So that's amazing. What a great resource. Thank you. I'm so glad you did that. All right. Thank you, Brittany. Thanks for coming. I.