Interview with Alex Dold, Dr. of Outlander

What does it mean to fall through time and land in history class?

If you've ever stayed up until 2am turning pages of Outlander, convinced you could practically smell the heather and hear the clash of broadswords at Culloden, today's guest has a very official explanation for why that happened — and a doctorate to back it up.

Dr. Alex Dold is a public historian, literary scholar, tour guide, and "Doctor of Outlander." Based in Scotland, Alex completed her PhD at the University of the Highlands and Islands with a thesis arguing that Diana Gabaldon's Outlander novels function as a genuine form of public history — shaping how millions of readers around the world understand 18th-century Scotland, the Jacobite rising of 1745, and Highland culture. She also contributed two chapters to the newly released academic collection Outlander and Scotland: Touchstones and Signposts (Luath Press, 2025), leads literary walking tours in Glasgow, and speaks at fan conventions and universities alike.

In this episode, Vanessa and Alex talk about:

• How a reader in Germany became Scotland's foremost Outlander scholar
• What "public history" means — and why it matters that Outlander qualifies
• The real-world impact Outlander tourism has had on Scottish heritage sites
• What Alex told Diana Gabaldon when she finally met her in person
• And why you should never, ever be embarrassed that a romance novel sent you down a Scottish history rabbit hole

Whether you've read all nine books, just finished the series, or you're a Scotland-dreamer planning your own literary pilgrimage, this episode will make you love the Highlands even more.

📚 Books mentioned in this episode:

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Outlander and Scotland: Touchstones and Signposts  — Alex's own book! The academic collection she contributed two chapters to. A must-have for any serious Outlander fan.

⚔️ Damn Rebel Bitches: The Women of '45  by Maggie Craig — The real women of the Jacobite rising of 1745. If Claire Fraser makes you want more, this is your book.

✉️ Burt's Letters from the North of Scotland by Edward Burt — A fascinating firsthand account of 18th-century Highland life from an English officer stationed in Scotland. Primary source gold for Outlander readers.

⏳ Just One Damned Thing After Another by Jodi Taylor — If you love the idea of time-traveling historians getting into trouble, this series is your next obsession.

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Ready to walk in Jamie and Claire's footsteps? Join us on the Scottish Book Club Tour, June 22–29, 2027 — a small-group literary journey through the Highlands with your fellow book lovers. Visit thebookclubtour.com to learn more and reserve your spot.

Connect with Alex: 🌐 alexdold.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alex.dold.historian

Love this podcast? Imagine walking the Yorkshire moors where the Brontës found inspiration, visiting Jane Austen's writing desk at Chawton, and exploring Shakespeare's birthplace with fellow book lovers. We do all this and more on The Book Club Tour!

Follow along with our adventures, or join us! 

🌐 Explore our tours: thebookclubtour.com
📸 Instagram: @thebookclubtour
👥 Facebook: @thebookclubtour

Transcript

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 0:06

all right. So, Dr. Alex Dolt, Welcome to the Brit Lip Book Club. Glad you're here. Do you wanna just give us a little bit of a, quick bio? I mean, I, I usually, I say about myself that I'm a literary scholar and historian.

Dr Alex Dold 0:20

my

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 0:21

first few degrees at uni were all about literature, and then I branched out

Dr Alex Dold 0:25

history and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 0:26

and now I get to do both, which is really fun. Um,

Dr Alex Dold 0:29

I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 0:29

I am currently the only person in the world that has a PhD

Dr Alex Dold 0:33

in the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 0:33

in the Outlander novel, In, in all the ones that have been published so far.

Dr Alex Dold 0:37

Uh, but

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 0:37

but there's much more academic research coming up. So it's really exciting to see that. But for now, I get

Dr Alex Dold 0:42

I'm

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 0:42

to say I'm the only one.

Dr Alex Dold 0:44

And yeah,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 0:45

yeah, it's really exciting to

Dr Alex Dold 0:46

go

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 0:46

go to different places and speak to different people because yeah, I love what I do and I wanna share all my novel. Love that. Okay, so you're called Doctor of Outlander, like you said, which is honestly one of the best titles I've ever heard. And, um, just take us back to the beginning, like, how does a girl from Germany end up becoming a PhD historian specializing in American authors novel about Scotland?

Dr Alex Dold 1:11

I love

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:11

I love how you phrased the question because it, it's

Dr Alex Dold 1:14

quite

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:14

quite complicated.

Dr Alex Dold 1:15

always in

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:16

in between different things, so obviously the author is American

Dr Alex Dold 1:19

then

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:20

and I live in Scotland, but I'm from Germany

Dr Alex Dold 1:22

a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:22

and historian, but I'm also a

Dr Alex Dold 1:24

scholar.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:25

and so I, I feel like I'm kind of branching out in all the directions.

Dr Alex Dold 1:29

Um, the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:30

the PhD came about

Dr Alex Dold 1:32

by

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:33

me doing semester abroad

Dr Alex Dold 1:34

Scotland. So

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:36

So I went to university in Bon in Germany, and they had,

Dr Alex Dold 1:41

um, an Erasa scholarship

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:43

for

Dr Alex Dold 1:43

abroad. I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:45

and I thought,

Dr Alex Dold 1:45

they give me money to go

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:46

to go abroad, why not

Dr Alex Dold 1:48

and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:48

try and use it?

Dr Alex Dold 1:49

And

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:50

And the only option I had for English speaking countries were either England or Scotland. Um,

Dr Alex Dold 1:54

Um, now that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:55

now that I live in Scotland, I'm very glad I've never picked England because famously

Dr Alex Dold 1:59

we

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:00

we

Dr Alex Dold 2:00

uh,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:00

England.

Dr Alex Dold 2:01

Um, so

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:02

so it, it was just by chance in

Dr Alex Dold 2:05

College that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:06

that at the time was available for me to go to.

Dr Alex Dold 2:08

without

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:09

any big issues or any big

Dr Alex Dold 2:11

visa

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:12

things to sort. Um,

Dr Alex Dold 2:14

the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:15

the UK was still a member of the EU at the time, so I literally

Dr Alex Dold 2:19

my

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:19

my bag,

Dr Alex Dold 2:20

up to

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:20

up to uni, lived on campus and had like the best time of my life. Um, I will say that I was probably

Dr Alex Dold 2:28

More

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:28

more focused on making friends,

Dr Alex Dold 2:30

meeting

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:31

people,

Dr Alex Dold 2:32

Um,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:33

as one does in college.

Dr Alex Dold 2:35

I know, I know that that was

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:36

That was the whole point. Yes.

Dr Alex Dold 2:37

I think 23, 24, something like that. Um, and I lived in a, in a flat with five other people. of us kind of international students, and went

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:48

went to class I

Dr Alex Dold 2:50

I think I had three lessons per week or

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:52

something

Dr Alex Dold 2:52

which really doesn't sound a lot, but there

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:54

but there was

Dr Alex Dold 2:55

surrounding

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 2:55

surrounding it, so

Dr Alex Dold 2:56

spent my time, time when I wasn't out partying with my friends, uh, I would explore kind of the highlands and then like on the side do a little bit of

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:05

of reading.

Dr Alex Dold 3:06

my parents aren't hearing this.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:08

But

Dr Alex Dold 3:08

I did

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:08

I did end up, I got my mark that

Dr Alex Dold 3:10

could then use for my German degree. And the semester I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:13

I really enjoyed

Dr Alex Dold 3:15

Kind

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:15

kind of exploring other

Dr Alex Dold 3:17

of literature than

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:18

and what I would do in,

Dr Alex Dold 3:19

because there is

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:20

there quite a

Dr Alex Dold 3:21

rigorous

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:22

system there

Dr Alex Dold 3:23

and they kind

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:24

they can suggest what we writing about. And then I thought, you know, I'm in a different country,

Dr Alex Dold 3:29

just try out whatever

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:30

whatever I wanna write about.

Dr Alex Dold 3:32

So I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:32

I wrote an essay about a by

Dr Alex Dold 3:33

by Michael

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:34

McIntyre

Dr Alex Dold 3:35

um, where he

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:36

where he talk about

Dr Alex Dold 3:37

of the Scottish

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:38

quote,

Dr Alex Dold 3:38

basically as opposite

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:40

opposite as possible to

Dr Alex Dold 3:42

I had a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:42

i a

Dr Alex Dold 3:42

fun watching the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:44

the analyzing it and writing about it.

Dr Alex Dold 3:46

And

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:47

my professor at the time really enjoyed it and I was like, right, I'm gonna push

Dr Alex Dold 3:50

further and I'll

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:51

and I'll write about Outlander,

Dr Alex Dold 3:52

I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:52

which I had just watched

Dr Alex Dold 3:54

my

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:54

with my dad before.

Dr Alex Dold 3:55

Scotland. So

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:57

So anybody that has, you know,

Dr Alex Dold 3:58

will know that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 3:59

that watching it, your dad

Dr Alex Dold 4:00

a bit

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:00

is a bit awkward when,

Dr Alex Dold 4:02

scenes come up. Um, but

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:04

but we, we made way

Dr Alex Dold 4:05

it. And

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:05

do it. And then

Dr Alex Dold 4:06

Moving into

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:06

into my,

Dr Alex Dold 4:07

with all

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:08

with all my,

Dr Alex Dold 4:08

One

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:09

one of them said, oh, I,

Dr Alex Dold 4:10

I'm in that. Like, I'm one of the people that's in the second season. And I was like, oh my God, this is crazy. Like, who are

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:16

who,

Dr Alex Dold 4:17

Who was

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:17

who was there when you were filming? Like, have

Dr Alex Dold 4:19

Hu and have you

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:20

have you done that? Have you done that?

Dr Alex Dold 4:21

couldn't remember a thing.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:22

What?

Dr Alex Dold 4:23

frustrating. Um, and he

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:25

And he was like, know, I've never seen, like

Dr Alex Dold 4:27

not

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:27

not watched.

Dr Alex Dold 4:28

Um, it

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:29

Oh my goodness.

Dr Alex Dold 4:30

he was, he, he was an

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:31

Extra. You know?

Dr Alex Dold 4:32

Ian gets abducted

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:34

Yes.

Dr Alex Dold 4:35

in the second season? So

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:36

Yes.

Dr Alex Dold 4:37

rowing the boat.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:38

Oh my gosh.

Dr Alex Dold 4:39

So it's, it's like he can't, I don't,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:42

I don't

Dr Alex Dold 4:42

even know what person he is. It's very far

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:45

away

Dr Alex Dold 4:45

I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:46

I thought

Dr Alex Dold 4:46

kind of, you know, leading me towards, I should write an

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:50

essay. I love it.

Dr Alex Dold 4:51

I did, about tartan and the representation of identity, in Outlander and what, how they

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 4:57

How

Dr Alex Dold 4:57

it to kind of show who's Scottish and who's not. Um, again, got a good mark for it, thankfully. And, uh. Went

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:04

went

Dr Alex Dold 5:05

to Germany and was like, that's what I'm gonna write my master's thesis about. was really into it. I wrote it. I got a really good mark, which I wasn't expecting that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:13

that they would enjoy it as much. Um,

Dr Alex Dold 5:15

and I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:15

and I got a comment from my supervisor saying

Dr Alex Dold 5:19

that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:19

that she really enjoyed how I did

Dr Alex Dold 5:21

historical analysis and I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:22

and I didn't know that

Dr Alex Dold 5:24

just work interdisciplinary like this. I thought it had to be history or literature. So that was kind of like my

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:29

first brush it.

Dr Alex Dold 5:31

I sent

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:31

I sent that

Dr Alex Dold 5:32

thesis to the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:33

the professor,

Dr Alex Dold 5:34

the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:34

the

Dr Alex Dold 5:35

lecturer in Scotland and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:37

and he definitely

Dr Alex Dold 5:38

and said,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:38

said, if you ever wanna do,

Dr Alex Dold 5:40

in Scotland, you know,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:41

picked me up. And I was like, whoa. Yes.

Dr Alex Dold 5:43

Um, from, right, like

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:45

Like from what I knew about.

Dr Alex Dold 5:47

the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:47

Program.

Dr Alex Dold 5:47

programs, you

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:48

You don't just get it offered.

Dr Alex Dold 5:49

Like you have

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:51

you have to have to

Dr Alex Dold 5:51

have to find your

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:52

find supervisor,

Dr Alex Dold 5:53

you have to

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:53

you have to find

Dr Alex Dold 5:54

and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:54

and everything.

Dr Alex Dold 5:55

Um, and I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:56

and I was just like,

Dr Alex Dold 5:57

I'll do it.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 5:57

I'll do,

Dr Alex Dold 5:58

Um, and he was like, right, cool. Uh, you can start as soon as September or October. That was in May. So I was like, I said to my family, I'm gonna move to Scotland. were

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:07

we were still in the EU at the time, so

Dr Alex Dold 6:09

it was. Easy

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:10

enough for to do, packed my life

Dr Alex Dold 6:12

two suitcases, uh, left

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:14

left boxes

Dr Alex Dold 6:15

parents' house and they

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:16

and they were like, well come back

Dr Alex Dold 6:17

not sure if I'm gonna come back. Um, we're at

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:21

like seven years later.

Dr Alex Dold 6:22

I'm still here.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:23

Amazing.

Dr Alex Dold 6:24

it's really been this like big

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:26

Big thing. I moved to the

Dr Alex Dold 6:28

of

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:28

s

Dr Alex Dold 6:28

an

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:28

an hour north

Dr Alex Dold 6:30

kind of the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:30

of the middle of nowhere. If you go, the car can't go anywhere. Oh.

Dr Alex Dold 6:33

amazing. Um,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:36

And then,

Dr Alex Dold 6:36

hit, so

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:38

so my PhD research.

Dr Alex Dold 6:39

gonna be into Outlander fans and how they relate to the country. Um, got kind of

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:46

Kind of

Dr Alex Dold 6:47

pushed the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:48

to the side and I couldn't really do it anymore.

Dr Alex Dold 6:50

then I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:50

And then I realized

Dr Alex Dold 6:51

thing

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:51

the thing I'm actually passionate about is shouting into people's papers. Outlander is important,

Dr Alex Dold 6:57

and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 6:58

and that kind of become the message of my whole thesis.

Dr Alex Dold 7:00

Um,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 7:01

Obviously, you have to academically explain it.

Dr Alex Dold 7:03

I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 7:03

I do say

Dr Alex Dold 7:04

a reasons

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 7:05

why,

Dr Alex Dold 7:06

but

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 7:06

but basically this me saying like,

Dr Alex Dold 7:09

dear traditional

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 7:11

historian and

Dr Alex Dold 7:12

literary

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 7:14

scholars,

Dr Alex Dold 7:14

I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 7:15

I don't like that. You don't like

Dr Alex Dold 7:17

and here's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 7:17

your,

Dr Alex Dold 7:18

it's good.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 7:19

I love that you've connected those two worlds, like your literature background and your history background, and. Kind of put those two passions into one. I think that's really amazing. Um, I kind of have a funny, um, Outlander, you know, you're saying you're watching it with your dad and it's awkward. So my first introduction to Outlander was my grandma, who I actually lived in Scotland with when I was little. I was like nine, 10. Um, she was working on her PhD in British literature and um, probably a few more years later, she moved back to the States and I would drive her. She had really bad arthritis so she couldn't drive. So I would drive her from Southern California to Northern California to visit, um, her mom or my great grandma. And we would listen to the Outlander audio books on our drives. And I still remember, you know, like getting to those like. Saucy bits in the, in the books. And her being like, fast forward, fast forward, you know, listening with your, with your elderly grandma. So that was my introduction, to Outlander, just after living in Scotland with my grandma and then listening to Outlander with her, you know, that was just, it kind of holds a special place in my heart. And, I'm, I'm watching the last season of Outlander very slowly right now.'cause I'm just like sad that this whole, you know, I've read all the books and watched all of the seasons and it's like, this is like kind of coming to a close. But, um, I mean, I'm ending it with like a tour book, club tour to Scotland. So.

Dr Alex Dold 8:39

Right.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 8:40

I, I guess that's the best way to do it.

Dr Alex Dold 8:42

I mean, and we

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 8:43

And we have one more book to come out, right? Yes.

Dr Alex Dold 8:46

pages to

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 8:47

Yes. Do you think there are, do you think they're going to do another season after that? I don't think

Dr Alex Dold 8:51

I don't think they

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 8:52

they'll Okay. I think

Dr Alex Dold 8:54

might

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 8:54

might be,

Dr Alex Dold 8:55

depending on how they're

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 8:56

on how the ending season,

Dr Alex Dold 8:57

obviously if everybody dies, there won't, there

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 9:00

they won't accessibility to do that. Right.

Dr Alex Dold 9:02

But

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 9:03

But if, if Jamie and Claire do survive,

Dr Alex Dold 9:06

I think

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 9:06

I think it's their potential source,

Dr Alex Dold 9:08

film maybe that they

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 9:09

that they might do. Um,

Dr Alex Dold 9:10

Um, but I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 9:11

but I think it's more likely that they,

Dr Alex Dold 9:13

do more spinoff series. So,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 9:14

yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 9:16

obviously lends itself as a new

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 9:18

New series. And I think, uh,

Dr Alex Dold 9:20

David

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 9:20

David had said that he's very interested in playing Lord John

Dr Alex Dold 9:24

something

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 9:24

something like that. Okay. That'll be amazing. It'll be interesting to see what happens, but I'm just, I'm not ready to close that chapter of my life, so I'll be happy if it continues. Okay. You, you're based in Scotland. You said you live an hour outside of Infers. Um, I used. Oh,

Dr Alex Dold 9:40

to, I'm

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 9:40

you used to. Oh, now you're in Glasto. Okay. You've been leading walking tours for years. How much did living in the Highland shape, the way that you read and research? Outlander?

Dr Alex Dold 9:50

Yeah,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 9:51

Yeah. I mean, first moving

Dr Alex Dold 9:53

to an hour

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 9:54

an hour

Dr Alex Dold 9:54

er, near a place

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 9:55

place called

Dr Alex Dold 9:56

where Glen

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 9:57

Glen

Dr Alex Dold 9:57

is from

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 9:58

from roughly. Right. That's what people know. Um,

Dr Alex Dold 10:01

I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:01

I realized so quickly why it takes them forever to go somewhere,

Dr Alex Dold 10:06

like Outlander,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:07

because even by car it takes you forever and you can drive up to 60 miles per hour

Dr Alex Dold 10:11

it

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:11

and it just feels like,

Dr Alex Dold 10:13

you

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:13

you know, I, I was

Dr Alex Dold 10:14

eight

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:15

eight minutes drive away from the next village. That's how

Dr Alex Dold 10:17

kind of my cottage was at the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:19

the time

Dr Alex Dold 10:19

And

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:20

can't

Dr Alex Dold 10:21

can't

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:21

just

Dr Alex Dold 10:22

quickly go and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:23

go and

Dr Alex Dold 10:23

toilet paper or something. It's always a 50 minute run to the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:26

run, shop

Dr Alex Dold 10:27

back.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:28

and

Dr Alex Dold 10:28

kind of modern transport.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:29

transport.

Dr Alex Dold 10:30

like reading. Especially in the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:32

in the book, like reading how long, like another day of,

Dr Alex Dold 10:36

and another sleep on,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:37

and then I write another day of travel.

Dr Alex Dold 10:39

That's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:40

That's more understandable if you're in in the place.

Dr Alex Dold 10:43

Um, and I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:45

And I think I also understood a lot more

Dr Alex Dold 10:47

of pride that Scottish people

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:49

people have in their country because I'm from Germany and we

Dr Alex Dold 10:52

have

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:52

have that.

Dr Alex Dold 10:53

historically

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:54

speaking, our history isn't really

Dr Alex Dold 10:57

positive

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 10:58

influence on the world. Like say with two world wars.

Dr Alex Dold 11:01

And like

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 11:02

and like my country was the cause for this,

Dr Alex Dold 11:04

so

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 11:05

so we don't put up that in our gardens or something

Dr Alex Dold 11:08

really, Americans do that a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 11:10

do that a lot, especially for of

Dr Alex Dold 11:11

July. don't

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 11:12

I don't really remember

Dr Alex Dold 11:14

any

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 11:14

any point in my life thinking

Dr Alex Dold 11:16

I would love

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 11:16

I would love to put the,

Dr Alex Dold 11:17

up for this. So

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 11:18

so I kind of absolutely fascinating how

Dr Alex Dold 11:21

proud you can be of your

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 11:22

be country

Dr Alex Dold 11:23

much you can hate another country

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 11:24

country like England. Yeah, it's, it's just fascinating how. History has shaped the culture and

Dr Alex Dold 11:31

can

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 11:31

you can still see today what's going on, whether it's religion or historical conflict or something like that. Yeah. That's really fascinating. I honestly never really thought about that. And I do always feel like Germans are really good about like, I mean, it's not, obviously not your fault, right. But like about just like taking accountability for their country. And I know, I just find that really interesting. I feel like as Americans we don't do that and we should. So it's interesting. It's kind of hammered into our heads in schools like we, yeah. Obviously

Dr Alex Dold 11:58

think

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 11:58

I think it's, it's a very different approach if you've lost

Dr Alex Dold 12:01

war,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:02

Um,

Dr Alex Dold 12:02

to

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:03

that's true. But it's,

Dr Alex Dold 12:04

it's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:04

not just

Dr Alex Dold 12:05

we

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:05

we lost,

Dr Alex Dold 12:06

also

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:06

also started it. Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 12:07

mean, I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:08

I mean, I think we, it, it's right. I didn't do anything

Dr Alex Dold 12:10

like.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:11

like

Dr Alex Dold 12:11

But my

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:12

my grandparents immigration would've been involved in some sort of way, whether they looked away or whether they actively participated.

Dr Alex Dold 12:18

So

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:18

So it's

Dr Alex Dold 12:19

it's very

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:19

very interesting for me to see a different perspective.

Dr Alex Dold 12:22

I have a fun

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:23

I come back,

Dr Alex Dold 12:24

on

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:25

On.

Dr Alex Dold 12:25

of November in Britain.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:28

There's a minute silence at 11,

Dr Alex Dold 12:30

Um, so

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:31

so 11:00 AM

Dr Alex Dold 12:32

and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:33

and 11. Mm-hmm. I like

Dr Alex Dold 12:35

we,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:35

we, we've been going on holidays or something on that day and there's literally in the airport,

Dr Alex Dold 12:40

of silence. The area

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:41

area that I'm from, Germany,

Dr Alex Dold 12:43

our carnival starts. It's time of like

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:45

like happy celebration,

Dr Alex Dold 12:46

literally,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:47

literally sit in and everybody like

Dr Alex Dold 12:49

11, 11. It's a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:51

It's a very different kind of, well, there's no remembrance on that day. There is remembrance, obviously

Dr Alex Dold 12:57

Laying down, but,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:58

but

Dr Alex Dold 12:59

um, I dunno

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 12:59

I dunno how much you know about re

Dr Alex Dold 13:01

in the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 13:01

in UK

Dr Alex Dold 13:02

entirety of November, people

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 13:03

people.

Dr Alex Dold 13:03

poppies.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 13:05

I haven't come across this before,

Dr Alex Dold 13:07

so

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 13:07

so I'm, I'm really interested to

Dr Alex Dold 13:09

of

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 13:10

just

Dr Alex Dold 13:10

living a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 13:11

a different culture but also like I don't give up my

Dr Alex Dold 13:14

Like I bring stuff in. There's a specific kind of roles I force my boyfriend to

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 13:19

to eat

Dr Alex Dold 13:19

uh, every

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 13:20

every once in a while when I'm really craving.

Dr Alex Dold 13:22

Now that little

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 13:23

little

Dr Alex Dold 13:23

Here in

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 13:24

here in Scotland,

Dr Alex Dold 13:25

it's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 13:25

it, it's just like a nice little thing.

Dr Alex Dold 13:27

But at the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 13:28

But at the same time, when I'm in Germany, I Ms. Scott,

Dr Alex Dold 13:31

so it's always this thing, the, the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 13:32

those things that

Dr Alex Dold 13:33

like can't

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 13:34

I have in the moment. Yes, yes. The dichotomy of being, you know, trapped between those two cultures and you never, you know, feeling at home in two places. So.

Dr Alex Dold 13:44

Yeah.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 13:45

Okay. Your doctoral thesis makes the argument that Outlander functions as a form of public history. For listeners who might not know that term, what does public history mean and why does it matter that we put Outlander in that category?

Dr Alex Dold 13:59

Right.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:00

Right. So

Dr Alex Dold 14:01

hadn't

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:01

hadn't actually heard about public history until I.

Dr Alex Dold 14:04

I said very passionately to my supervisors. I wanna shout into people's faces saying like, Outlander is good and here's why. his reply was, so you wanna

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:13

Write

Dr Alex Dold 14:14

history? And

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:15

like

Dr Alex Dold 14:15

like, oh, okay, maybe. I'm not sure what this is. Spend obviously weeks and weeks reading up on

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:21

up on

Dr Alex Dold 14:21

so much theories about it. But it's an interesting concept that developed at the same time in the us, the uk, Germany, and Australia, they were kind of the first

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:30

first

Dr Alex Dold 14:30

that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:31

that

Dr Alex Dold 14:31

the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:31

the idea up

Dr Alex Dold 14:32

And it's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:32

and it's literally just any way of learning history that isn't university

Dr Alex Dold 14:37

or

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:37

or any, any kind of like school.

Dr Alex Dold 14:39

setting. So if

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:40

So if you go to an open air museum

Dr Alex Dold 14:42

that's public history. If you go to an any

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:45

museum,

Dr Alex Dold 14:45

general, walking tours count as this. I was

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:49

was quite convinced that a

Dr Alex Dold 14:50

literary

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:52

fiction or a historical fiction

Dr Alex Dold 14:53

Would count into

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:54

would into that as well. And I read so

Dr Alex Dold 14:56

books and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 14:57

and I found anybody that.

Dr Alex Dold 14:59

historical fiction is

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:00

Is public,

Dr Alex Dold 15:01

So they're

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:01

so they're all kind dancing around that.

Dr Alex Dold 15:04

I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:04

I still don't really know why, because it's quite obvious to me.

Dr Alex Dold 15:07

read a historical book, you

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:09

You

Dr Alex Dold 15:09

learn something history. Um, so

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:13

so I'm,

Dr Alex Dold 15:13

the only person in the world that says Outlander is public history. And

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:17

and I

Dr Alex Dold 15:17

much

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:18

much am convinced that it's

Dr Alex Dold 15:20

because there's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:21

there's so many, anybody that's listened to it and has seen,

Dr Alex Dold 15:24

they

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:24

they'll know more about

Dr Alex Dold 15:25

the jack about rebellion.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:27

I didn't know that much about

Dr Alex Dold 15:29

the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:29

the American Revolution other than,

Dr Alex Dold 15:31

it

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:31

know, it happened.

Dr Alex Dold 15:32

dates. But

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:34

But I've learned a lot more about that. And to be honest,

Dr Alex Dold 15:37

history wasn't really something I was interested in. German

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:40

German,

Dr Alex Dold 15:40

isn't

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:40

something I'm interested in. For some reason it's just

Dr Alex Dold 15:43

obsessed with Scottish history even that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:46

that

Dr Alex Dold 15:47

I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:48

learned

Dr Alex Dold 15:49

about something in Outlander and then went away and read academic books about it. And I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:53

and I think that,

Dr Alex Dold 15:54

to many, many people. But it's really

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:57

it.

Dr Alex Dold 15:57

to say, Hey,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:58

Hey, this

Dr Alex Dold 15:59

on

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 15:59

on Facebook

Dr Alex Dold 16:00

has

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:00

has said they read up on,

Dr Alex Dold 16:03

I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:03

I dunno,

Dr Alex Dold 16:04

um, Paul Revere or

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:05

or something like that

Dr Alex Dold 16:06

Um, because that's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:07

that's not academic knowledge, like you have to get them somewhere.

Dr Alex Dold 16:11

And a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:12

a PhD thesis

Dr Alex Dold 16:14

is only

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:14

only accepted and

Dr Alex Dold 16:16

pass with it if it brings new knowledge to a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:18

subject

Dr Alex Dold 16:19

the part

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:20

part that I'm contributing to

Dr Alex Dold 16:22

Scholarship is

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:24

is saying

Dr Alex Dold 16:24

think

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:25

think that I

Dr Alex Dold 16:26

be public

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:26

public

Dr Alex Dold 16:27

and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:27

and by extension I believe that

Dr Alex Dold 16:30

fiction can be as well.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:32

but I didn't have

Dr Alex Dold 16:33

or like words left in my thesis to even suggest what

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:36

what other types of work that might be. Yeah, so many works. I mean, you know, you know what I do, you know, with the book club tour that's, you know, all about public history. We are reading books about places and then visiting those places and so I'm also very passionate about that as well. So I appreciate that

Dr Alex Dold 16:53

Yeah. It's,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:54

it's, it's something that I really.

Dr Alex Dold 16:56

saying to people, what

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 16:58

What you're feeling about

Dr Alex Dold 16:59

series is valid because you do believe, you learn

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 17:04

something

Dr Alex Dold 17:04

and even if you took away the tiniest bit, like, I dunno, can pop

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 17:10

pop.

Dr Alex Dold 17:10

back into its socket if that's what you take away. You've already learned something. Right.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 17:14

I just, I just watched that episode last night.

Dr Alex Dold 17:18

I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 17:19

I have been told

Dr Alex Dold 17:20

people shouldn't that themselves because the way it's it's portrayed in the series apparently isn't what modern surgeons would suggest you do.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 17:30

I would definitely not attempt that myself. Okay. You identify four key narrative strategies Diana Gabaldon uses to help readers connect with the past. Things like time travel, is storytelling a device intertextuality, and the depiction of fictional historians. Can you walk us through one or two of those in a way that would make a book Club reader see the series differently? Sorry, that's a really long question.

Dr Alex Dold 17:58

That's all

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 17:58

alright.

Dr Alex Dold 17:59

I, I mean,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 18:00

I,

Dr Alex Dold 18:00

that's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 18:01

that's something

Dr Alex Dold 18:01

that my

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 18:02

that my dad said

Dr Alex Dold 18:02

He was, he, he

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 18:04

he did What to do.

Dr Alex Dold 18:05

and at some point he was like, I better read all the books right,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 18:08

Read.

Dr Alex Dold 18:08

know what you're talking about. So he read the German version of it then he texted me and said like, are you making me read soft porn here? And I was like, well, of right Like it, it is a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 18:19

It's a little bit,

Dr Alex Dold 18:20

also now that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 18:22

now that you're reading the first book

Dr Alex Dold 18:23

to this, this, and this. And he was like, oh, right. So that has really changed the reading experience and I think that's some of the things that I've identified. So Intertextuality a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 18:33

concept

Dr Alex Dold 18:34

Des, uh, created in the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 18:35

in the 19

Dr Alex Dold 18:36

by a woman called Julia Eva. And

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 18:39

and it basically just means

Dr Alex Dold 18:40

reference another book in your book.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 18:42

book.

Dr Alex Dold 18:43

when Jamie

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 18:44

the

Dr Alex Dold 18:45

reads, um, Robinson cr, that is Intertextuality. So that is one of the scenes that I analyze in my thesis. I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 18:51

I think if you like look at this,

Dr Alex Dold 18:53

says, Jamie puts down the book very carefully so you can kind of

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 18:58

Kind of take that What?

Dr Alex Dold 19:00

a lot

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:00

A lot

Dr Alex Dold 19:00

than your average

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:01

more

Dr Alex Dold 19:02

nowadays. then, um.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:04

um,

Dr Alex Dold 19:05

There's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:05

there's an actual quotation

Dr Alex Dold 19:07

Cruz in the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:08

in the,

Dr Alex Dold 19:08

that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:09

that

Dr Alex Dold 19:09

of,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:09

kind

Dr Alex Dold 19:11

um, mirrors what

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:12

what Jamie

Dr Alex Dold 19:12

through the isolation be.'cause Jamie in, in this

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:15

in

Dr Alex Dold 19:16

for

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:16

situation. Anybody that doesn't know what I'm about

Dr Alex Dold 19:18

in a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:18

in safe hiding

Dr Alex Dold 19:20

from the British government army and basically doesn't have

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:23

doesn't have anything to do.

Dr Alex Dold 19:24

throughout his day other than hide. So

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:26

So obviously

Dr Alex Dold 19:28

part of, of being, getting some

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:30

mental,

Dr Alex Dold 19:32

So

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:32

so there's a theme of how in

Dr Alex Dold 19:34

Cruso, he's like

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:36

like

Dr Alex Dold 19:36

isolated and he's collecting

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:38

rainwater

Dr Alex Dold 19:38

survive.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:40

and it, it's kind of

Dr Alex Dold 19:41

as if Jamie's reading this and validating like,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:44

in like, oh,

Dr Alex Dold 19:44

is the same just now.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:46

so

Dr Alex Dold 19:46

So a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:47

a modern reader.

Dr Alex Dold 19:48

thinks like, okay,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:49

18

Dr Alex Dold 19:50

the 18th century when

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:51

when

Dr Alex Dold 19:51

reading this Robinson Cruise, who must have

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:53

must existed.

Dr Alex Dold 19:54

I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:54

I went on and like looked up.

Dr Alex Dold 19:56

was

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:57

was Robinson publish?

Dr Alex Dold 19:58

it

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 19:58

Written for?

Dr Alex Dold 19:59

First it was

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:00

it was

Dr Alex Dold 20:00

um, children's book

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:01

books and

Dr Alex Dold 20:02

popular with adults as well.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:04

and then it,

Dr Alex Dold 20:05

some criticism about

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:08

British colonialism in it and

Dr Alex Dold 20:10

the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:10

the role over other countries, which I

Dr Alex Dold 20:13

criticizes as

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:14

as well

Dr Alex Dold 20:14

with,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:15

with

Dr Alex Dold 20:15

the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:15

the

Dr Alex Dold 20:16

rebellion.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:16

rebellion. Mm-hmm. But really like

Dr Alex Dold 20:18

that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:18

that really got me into it and

Dr Alex Dold 20:20

have

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:20

I have a massive spread.

Dr Alex Dold 20:21

all the, um, references that are in Outlander. Most of them are from the Bible because Jamie is a deeply Catholic man.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:29

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 20:29

And then,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:30

And then,

Dr Alex Dold 20:31

I think the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:32

I think the first book

Dr Alex Dold 20:33

50 to 60 references. The one

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:36

one that

Dr Alex Dold 20:37

so far, the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:38

the.

Dr Alex Dold 20:38

the ninth book. Go tell the Visa is gone. That I am gone. Um. I think 180 or

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:45

80 or something

Dr Alex Dold 20:46

So it

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:47

so it got

Dr Alex Dold 20:47

it got more,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 20:48

more

Dr Alex Dold 20:49

a little bit like an Easter egg hunt, Easter egg hunt isn't a professional academic term, so you would rather say it's an intertextual representation of the time or something. Another thing that I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:02

I, I look at IS notes

Dr Alex Dold 21:03

and Lord John's friendship because they

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:05

they become friends at

Dr Alex Dold 21:07

books,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:08

Via the books read

Dr Alex Dold 21:10

And

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:10

and they talk about it and

Dr Alex Dold 21:12

uh, they find

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:14

they find interesting. So

Dr Alex Dold 21:15

surprised that Jamie's educated and can read and everything, which

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:18

which then

Dr Alex Dold 21:19

down a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:19

down Rabbit

Dr Alex Dold 21:20

of

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:21

of

Dr Alex Dold 21:21

trying to

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:21

trying to figure out how many people could that,

Dr Alex Dold 21:23

at the time. And

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:24

and interestingly there was more

Dr Alex Dold 21:26

people in Scotland than

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:27

than there were

Dr Alex Dold 21:28

at the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:28

at the time. Wow.

Dr Alex Dold 21:30

and it was about

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:30

75

Dr Alex Dold 21:31

could read of the population that includes men and women. And I thought that was absolutely fascinating, that like

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:39

that like

Dr Alex Dold 21:40

this

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:40

you can tell this.

Dr Alex Dold 21:41

this Highlander sexy Highlander talking to a very good looking British kind of aristocrat, right?

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:48

right?

Dr Alex Dold 21:49

So

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:49

So there's so much hidden in

Dr Alex Dold 21:51

based on

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:52

on books

Dr Alex Dold 21:52

the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:52

and the later

Dr Alex Dold 21:53

novels, John

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 21:54

John is

Dr Alex Dold 21:55

that sends books to Jamie. Basically creates a library at Fraser's Ridge, um,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:02

whether they fire them,

Dr Alex Dold 22:04

the library, they

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:04

they

Dr Alex Dold 22:05

it up

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:05

off again.

Dr Alex Dold 22:06

really that,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:07

That, that's one of the things that I find super fascinating,

Dr Alex Dold 22:10

talk

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:10

talk forever. Oh, that's fascinating. I am curious if you read all the books in English or German or both. Yeah, I them,

Dr Alex Dold 22:23

Um, I wasn't

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:23

I wasn't even born when the first book came out

Dr Alex Dold 22:25

book came out in

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:26

in 91.

Dr Alex Dold 22:27

born

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:28

was born three.

Dr Alex Dold 22:29

Um,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:29

That was probably the late nineties I started.

Dr Alex Dold 22:32

yeah. Um, I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:34

I mean, I didn't

Dr Alex Dold 22:35

out about the series

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:36

until.

Dr Alex Dold 22:37

found it on Netflix, and it literally said like, Scotland in the 18th century, I think was the tagline. And I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:43

and I was like, sure, why not?

Dr Alex Dold 22:44

in Scotland love it. Um,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:46

And then

Dr Alex Dold 22:47

with the se

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:48

with the

Dr Alex Dold 22:48

season coming out

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:49

coming was

Dr Alex Dold 22:49

I was in

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:50

in Scotland,

Dr Alex Dold 22:50

was

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:50

I was so annoyed

Dr Alex Dold 22:51

I couldn't find out what was

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:53

happen.

Dr Alex Dold 22:54

So I started reading them and I read them in English because it just, it kind of felt right.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 22:58

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 22:59

the seasons in English as well

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 23:01

Because

Dr Alex Dold 23:02

I was

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 23:03

I was trying to get to the accent and

Dr Alex Dold 23:06

that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 23:06

that was a,

Dr Alex Dold 23:07

well, that was a bit stupid because nobody inness talks like they're talking, uh, in, out under, uh, not that many people actually have that accent that they put on for the show that it's, it's two. I would say

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 23:19

I would say quite American.

Dr Alex Dold 23:21

what

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 23:21

Mm-hmm. Expect thinking about Scotland

Dr Alex Dold 23:24

Glasgow's accent is a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 23:25

is a lot.

Dr Alex Dold 23:27

and I think it sounds beautiful, but most people can't understand it at first. And I couldn't either. in comparison has a very clean

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 23:35

Accent.

Dr Alex Dold 23:36

so

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 23:36

So it, you almost can't tell that it's,

Dr Alex Dold 23:39

So people I think are a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 23:40

I disappointed when they get

Dr Alex Dold 23:42

and people just speak normally. Um, so

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 23:46

So yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 23:46

read

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 23:47

read them all in,

Dr Alex Dold 23:48

I have, I think the first book and a couple of the Lord John, um, novels in

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 23:53

in

Dr Alex Dold 23:53

I've

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 23:54

I,

Dr Alex Dold 23:55

them and I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 23:55

and I was like, no, weird.

Dr Alex Dold 23:57

Um, so

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 23:58

So it, I, I think it's because

Dr Alex Dold 24:00

in

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:00

in general, I, in

Dr Alex Dold 24:02

in

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:02

English, if they were written by an English speaking,

Dr Alex Dold 24:04

that just

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:05

right, right.

Dr Alex Dold 24:05

to me that that feels

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:07

Like I'm closer

Dr Alex Dold 24:08

to what the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:08

person

Dr Alex Dold 24:10

Um, and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:10

and then German,

Dr Alex Dold 24:11

if

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:11

written German,

Dr Alex Dold 24:13

but

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:13

but by now English transl

Dr Alex Dold 24:15

to my

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:15

to my ears.

Dr Alex Dold 24:16

So

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:16

So especially,

Dr Alex Dold 24:17

scenes. Really awkward in, in German. I really

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:20

I really don't like it.

Dr Alex Dold 24:22

so I,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:22

So I think I would

Dr Alex Dold 24:23

go fast

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:24

fast.

Dr Alex Dold 24:24

them. But one of the things I still want to

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:26

To do

Dr Alex Dold 24:27

in my

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:27

in my research is

Dr Alex Dold 24:28

of

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:28

kind of figure out

Dr Alex Dold 24:29

what do

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:30

what the Germans get when they read it and what

Dr Alex Dold 24:32

get, uh, or

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:33

at speaking people

Dr Alex Dold 24:34

And

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:34

and then find other,

Dr Alex Dold 24:36

like a Spanish speaking one, a French speaking one, and see what do they

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:40

do

Dr Alex Dold 24:40

because definitely the German translation, was cut short by about 30% in the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:46

in the first

Dr Alex Dold 24:47

edition because Ger like

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:49

Like Germany.

Dr Alex Dold 24:50

more

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:51

more work to say the same thing. Right. And

Dr Alex Dold 24:54

I think

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:54

I think we have,

Dr Alex Dold 24:55

There, there's a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:56

there's a saying that every 60 words

Dr Alex Dold 24:59

in

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 24:59

in English

Dr Alex Dold 25:00

words

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:01

words in German. Wow.

Dr Alex Dold 25:02

it, it

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:03

It's a

Dr Alex Dold 25:03

difference. The

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:04

German books even

Dr Alex Dold 25:05

than the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:06

than the English one. Um,

Dr Alex Dold 25:07

Um, they have

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:07

they have now rectified

Dr Alex Dold 25:09

there is

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:09

and there's a full translation

Dr Alex Dold 25:11

of

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:11

of all books.

Dr Alex Dold 25:12

Um, and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:13

And interestingly, Diana Gall,

Dr Alex Dold 25:15

is friends with

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:17

German.

Dr Alex Dold 25:17

uh, the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:18

German, mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 25:19

So the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:19

the German

Dr Alex Dold 25:20

get their translated edition faster than

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:22

than else. Oh, interesting.

Dr Alex Dold 25:24

shares her translations. Um, yeah.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:27

Yeah, so it, it's really interesting

Dr Alex Dold 25:29

that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:29

that, that

Dr Alex Dold 25:30

still wanna do. And I've

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:32

I just

Dr Alex Dold 25:32

published an

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:33

an article or

Dr Alex Dold 25:34

chapter

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:35

chapter, a book about the German violation,

Dr Alex Dold 25:37

just

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:38

just simply the title, because that,

Dr Alex Dold 25:40

makes a massive difference.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:41

yeah, that's always fun to see when I travel even, um, we were just in France over Christmas just seeing like movie titles and how they're translated and it's like, oh, that is completely different. I think it was like Zootopia or something. I can't remember what it was, but it was like, oh, that was like completely different in French.

Dr Alex Dold 25:55

Yeah,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:56

Yeah,

Dr Alex Dold 25:56

think there's, I think Moana is the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 25:58

is a big one.

Dr Alex Dold 25:59

um, that gets translated, um,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 26:02

Oh, that's funny.

Dr Alex Dold 26:03

context. For

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 26:04

For me, it was the first time I realized

Dr Alex Dold 26:06

difference in the translations was when the Twilight movies came out because I was obsessed with the books and I read them in, in

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 26:12

Me too, me too

Dr Alex Dold 26:14

good enough. And, uh, so the first movie is called Twilight in German. Um, it, the movie is now

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 26:21

called pilot as well. Just

Dr Alex Dold 26:23

term that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 26:24

that everybody know. Right.

Dr Alex Dold 26:25

was published as bi,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 26:27

This is

Dr Alex Dold 26:28

which

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 26:29

means bite until,

Dr Alex Dold 26:31

Um, so the, the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 26:33

the

Dr Alex Dold 26:33

BS with

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 26:34

was double edit means

Dr Alex Dold 26:35

bite. And then

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 26:36

and it's just,

Dr Alex Dold 26:38

it means until, so it, it's like a play on words either until like dawn or bite

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 26:43

bite,

Dr Alex Dold 26:44

dawn or something. It's, and then

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 26:46

and then all the other books follow that same

Dr Alex Dold 26:48

thing. It's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 26:48

thing.

Dr Alex Dold 26:48

bite until in a different time

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 26:50

That's so funny. I did not know that. I'm a big twilight. I'm a big twilight nerd, so this is a fun fact for me. Thank you.

Dr Alex Dold 26:56

Right. I mean, but it, it sounds horrible, right? Like, now that I know what the original is, I'm did have to make it awkward and make it sound like its vampires, you know, like

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 27:07

is so funny. Right, right bite until dawn. I love it. I'm gonna call it that from now on. Oh, that is so funny. Okay. There's attention, many readers feel Outlander is a romance novel, but it's also deeply researched historical, epic. Do you think that romantic framing actually helps or hurts how audiences engage with the real Scottish history?

Dr Alex Dold 27:32

Hi. I like sent me a couple

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 27:35

a couple of questions beforehand and like

Dr Alex Dold 27:36

in this one I like, I circled help a lot and I knew I wouldn't have to make any notes for this because I think for the average reader it does

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 27:44

help

Dr Alex Dold 27:45

it's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 27:45

it. It's the kind of way in,

Dr Alex Dold 27:46

it

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 27:47

it makes,

Dr Alex Dold 27:48

it's the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 27:48

it's the difference between a history book and a

Dr Alex Dold 27:50

fiction. You have

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 27:51

You have people that you connect with and obviously

Dr Alex Dold 27:54

that everybody's quite good

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 27:55

quite good

Dr Alex Dold 27:56

that they have steamy scenes with each other at the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 27:59

the time.

Dr Alex Dold 28:00

think

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:00

I think that.

Dr Alex Dold 28:01

The romance story hurts how well

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:04

Well

Dr Alex Dold 28:04

the books

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:04

books are, because

Dr Alex Dold 28:06

especially kind of

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:07

kind of classic

Dr Alex Dold 28:09

get a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:09

get a bit

Dr Alex Dold 28:10

too stuck into the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:12

into the

Dr Alex Dold 28:13

But it's romance,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:14

mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 28:15

it

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:15

It kind of overshadowed much.

Dr Alex Dold 28:16

historical fiction it is. I'm

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:19

I'm also convinced that not

Dr Alex Dold 28:21

are Roman's books. I think

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:22

think we, the first few are

Dr Alex Dold 28:24

until we

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:25

we get

Dr Alex Dold 28:25

and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:25

and Roger to come in, and then he's kind of moving into like a family.

Dr Alex Dold 28:29

kind of situation. Um, and I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:32

And I think that's what's happening in the.

Dr Alex Dold 28:34

just now as well, that we see all these people, all the kind of stiffened strands of families for

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:39

For whatever reason they're coming back

Dr Alex Dold 28:41

the same place and I'm

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:43

and I'm really hoping that they're gonna end the,

Dr Alex Dold 28:45

or the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:46

or the

Dr Alex Dold 28:46

overall with

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:47

with everybody together and being like happy and

Dr Alex Dold 28:51

not

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:52

not constantly.

Dr Alex Dold 28:52

like they have been for eight seasons.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 28:55

Yeah. I'm just at the, at the episode where Ian is leaving to go see if his old wife and child are still alive. So I'm like, I'm hoping that they bring swiftness stiff lizards back and he gets to live with them. I don't know. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see what happens. But

Dr Alex Dold 29:10

I mean, wait,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:11

wait, wait until you get I

Dr Alex Dold 29:12

what, which one was just out

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:14

number

Dr Alex Dold 29:14

there? There's been big

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:16

big

Dr Alex Dold 29:16

about it and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:17

and I, I personally, I'm not gonna give any spoilers, but I think

Dr Alex Dold 29:20

it was

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:21

it was very well done. It's overdraft

Dr Alex Dold 29:23

in

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:24

in comparison to the book.

Dr Alex Dold 29:25

but I can

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:25

Right. I can see why they did it.

Dr Alex Dold 29:27

TV has

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:28

has to be more dramatic,

Dr Alex Dold 29:30

right?

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:30

right?

Dr Alex Dold 29:31

Do you

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:31

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 29:31

some things work in

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:32

Books that don't work.

Dr Alex Dold 29:34

films or in series.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:35

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 29:36

for

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:36

For example.

Dr Alex Dold 29:37

the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:37

The voiceover that Claire does in the first.

Dr Alex Dold 29:40

I think

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:40

I think it's way better in the book because

Dr Alex Dold 29:42

get

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:42

we get

Dr Alex Dold 29:43

opinion the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:44

the entire time

Dr Alex Dold 29:45

and you

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:45

and we don't have any idea what anybody else thinks.

Dr Alex Dold 29:48

So once

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:48

One thing to do voiceovers by other characters.

Dr Alex Dold 29:51

like, all right,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:52

Alright, I

Dr Alex Dold 29:52

you're

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:53

see why you're doing it,

Dr Alex Dold 29:54

it's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:54

but it's not

Dr Alex Dold 29:55

the actual books

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 29:56

right. Right. But it's kind of necessary in some point so you can have that kind of internal dialogue. Right.

Dr Alex Dold 30:02

Also, they, they're

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 30:03

they're trying to

Dr Alex Dold 30:04

to make

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 30:05

make moves, right?

Dr Alex Dold 30:06

as a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 30:06

as a runner.

Dr Alex Dold 30:07

show has to be relevant, so

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 30:09

Yeah,

Dr Alex Dold 30:09

in a massively dramatic scene and everybody goes like, oh my God, I did not expect this because

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 30:15

because

Dr Alex Dold 30:16

the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 30:16

like the thing that happened in s

Dr Alex Dold 30:17

is

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 30:18

something that

Dr Alex Dold 30:19

readers

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 30:20

thought they knew about.

Dr Alex Dold 30:21

didn't.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 30:22

Okay. I am excited to get there

Dr Alex Dold 30:23

very, very intriguing. Yeah.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 30:26

I've been watching your videos, your episode reviews, and I'm like, oh, scroll away. I haven't seen that one yet, so I've got it. Once I'm all done and I'll go back and watch your video reviews,

Dr Alex Dold 30:33

Great.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 30:35

so I appreciate the spoiler alert. Okay. Your thesis covers not just Scotland, but the Jacka Bite uprising specifically as well as Scot's and Colonial America. How accurately does Gabaldon handle the Jacobite uprising of 1745 to 46? And where does she take the most creative liberty?

Dr Alex Dold 30:56

I hate this question,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 30:57

I hate

Dr Alex Dold 30:57

but simply

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 30:58

can skip it. We can skip it if you don't wanna answer.

Dr Alex Dold 31:00

No, no, I like, it's, it's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:02

It's more the

Dr Alex Dold 31:04

that I get asked all the time, how

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:05

how

Dr Alex Dold 31:06

is it?

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:06

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 31:07

I think

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:07

People

Dr Alex Dold 31:08

of people misunderstand my

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:10

my thesis as me going through the book.

Dr Alex Dold 31:12

and this is

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:13

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 31:13

and this is wrong and this is how it would actually be. And that's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:16

And that's not it all.

Dr Alex Dold 31:17

historical fiction work or no book ever can be a hundred percent true.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:22

true.

Dr Alex Dold 31:22

when we read published history books, they cannot be fully true because we only

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:26

Only get a perspective of

Dr Alex Dold 31:28

So when we

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:29

we research something, we can only see

Dr Alex Dold 31:31

what

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:31

what people have

Dr Alex Dold 31:32

us.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:33

And

Dr Alex Dold 31:33

in

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:34

in most of the times,

Dr Alex Dold 31:35

the people

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:35

the people that wrote down

Dr Alex Dold 31:37

what we

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:37

what we now still have

Dr Alex Dold 31:39

physical

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:40

evidence,

Dr Alex Dold 31:41

they were

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:41

they were

Dr Alex Dold 31:41

people that could ride. They were potentially

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:44

ally.

Dr Alex Dold 31:44

that did win the whatever fight uprising or something. So

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:49

So it's,

Dr Alex Dold 31:50

very

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:51

very interesting for me

Dr Alex Dold 31:52

To

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:53

to just say

Dr Alex Dold 31:54

guys, this is not relevant. Like it's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 31:56

it.

Dr Alex Dold 31:56

How accurate is saying that? I would say 90% and like I do have an answer for it, but I love to then just point people to, well, but isn't it interesting that more people were literate in Scotland and England or something like kind of

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 32:11

Kind of

Dr Alex Dold 32:11

change the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 32:12

the direction that

Dr Alex Dold 32:13

think we're going when

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 32:15

when

Dr Alex Dold 32:15

the question.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 32:16

question,

Dr Alex Dold 32:16

I think

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 32:17

I think one of the things,

Dr Alex Dold 32:18

the Jack, about Uprising that I find questionable is that the Larock men are sent back home so they all survive because that's the part where the time travel comes in. They're only sent home because Claire is there changing history in some sort of way, in a small way. She can't stop the whole uprising, but she can kind of save these people's lives. So that's where I go like, hmm, that that's a bit unbelievable that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 32:42

right?

Dr Alex Dold 32:43

a really clear conviction, like I wanna be part of this uprising. And then.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 32:47

And then

Dr Alex Dold 32:47

The evening of the actual like final big battle, they go, actually, you know

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 32:52

actually, you know what, yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 32:55

you

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 32:57

You know.

Dr Alex Dold 32:57

make, but.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 33:00

Yeah, it's fiction. Yeah, exactly. I love that answer. That's perfect. Thank you. Okay. You've contributed a few chapters to Outlander and Scotland published, in December. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Dr Alex Dold 33:13

Yes, it's, that's my first publication, so I'm really proud about it.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 33:17

Exciting.

Dr Alex Dold 33:18

I know it's so cool. It makes me a published author. I got to join the Society of

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 33:23

Author.

Dr Alex Dold 33:24

and it's, it's a crazy feeling. Unfortunately, my name is not on the cover, so anybody that finds it. So the full title is Outlander in Scotland, touchstones and Signposts. It is edited by a group of academics from Glasgow University, and I am inside the book, so I've signed it and everything, but it's, it's still like I can't wait to have like my own one with my own name on it on the front. This book came about after an Outlander conference in 2023, which was literally academics from all over the world coming together in Glasgow. Talking for five days about Outlander.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 33:59

Wow.

Dr Alex Dold 34:00

There were so many people that wanted to speak at this conference that every single. Panel had a parallel session, so you always had to choose which one you wanted to listen to. was a couple that I was super interested in, but I couldn't go because I was speaking at the time. And we ended the conference with kind of everybody saying like, what now is, have we established Outlander studies? Is this a thing now? Do we need to do

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 34:25

To

Dr Alex Dold 34:26

What's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 34:26

happen.

Dr Alex Dold 34:28

I will say

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 34:28

I,

Dr Alex Dold 34:28

this conference was probably 80% women, which isn't surprising because this is the main target group. But I think the more. The series has gone on. I think it's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 34:39

I think it kind of

Dr Alex Dold 34:40

also a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 34:40

also a.

Dr Alex Dold 34:41

that maybe were forced by their partners at first, but then got really into it. So I think there was probably about three to five male, uh, academics at this conference. It was one of the nicest conferences I've ever been to. Everybody was really supportive saying, oh my God, your topic sounds amazing. I wanna hear about it. And it wasn't kind of the normal peacocking you would have saying like, oh, I'm the only person that does this. And your research, that lots of academic conferences have, uh, kind of a, a statement that comes out. Uh, q and as at the end of a panel where it's like, this is not a question, more of a comment. And that didn't happen at the Outlander conference. It was genuinely interested questions that were being asked. So when we'd finished this, conference, it was supposed to be in 2021, obviously couldn't happen because of the pandemic. So it was pushed to 23 we all presented our papers, had a grand time, met so many cool people from all over the world, and then it kind of got a bit quiet until the organizers got in touch and were like, guys who wanna make a book? Are you up for it? So basically the that we had presented at the conference, they gave us a chance to rework them, send them in, and then they would put them together into a book. And they had found a publisher in Ed Edinburgh called Lewis Press. Who would print it and publish it and market it and everything. which means it is a commercial publisher, so that means that it gets published a lot faster than an academic publisher would. And the price is also kept down. I think it's about 16 roughly, which is really affordable for academic work. Usually their price

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 36:20

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 36:21

90 pound.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 36:22

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 36:22

Um, so we were, we were all amazingly happy with this. And uh, yeah, it came out in December. We did an online book launch because it was on the 18th of December, so everybody was off for their Christmas holidays already. we actually managed to get Diana Galone to come into that video call as well. And she did a couple of, she spoke a little bit and she also writes, wrote the foreword. There's a few questions. I think there's, it's like 20 questions at the very end of the book that she answered for us. And it's amazing how involved she's been in kind of promoting the book. She's also on the cover of the book.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 36:58

So cool.

Dr Alex Dold 36:59

so it's it's so cool. Yeah. And she's wearing the University of Glasgow Tartan.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 37:03

Oh, awesome. And you've met her several times, right?

Dr Alex Dold 37:08

I have met her five times.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 37:11

Oh my gosh,

Dr Alex Dold 37:12

It's, it's kind of, it's, it depends on like what you mean by me, like does it have to be in person? Like, because obviously I was on the video call as well and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 37:19

right.

Dr Alex Dold 37:20

so there's a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 37:20

We'll count it.

Dr Alex Dold 37:21

below her kind of thing. Yeah.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 37:23

We'll count it.

Dr Alex Dold 37:24

her. there's August in Edinburgh there's always a big, book festival or it's literature festival. And one year, I think it was 21, possibly or 22, um, in September she was there and she did a big kind of talk and presentation in this beautiful old building. And I went with one of my friends and that was the first time I'd seen her speak. And it was really exciting. And there was book signing after and I kind of like walked out really nervous. I was like, yay, I'm inviting my PhD thesis about your books. And she was clearly like her mind wasn't there'cause there was hundreds of people she was

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 38:01

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 38:01

she went like, oh, I hope that goes well for you. And that was it. And I was like, oh, that's a bit disappointing. You know? But looking back now, I know how overwhelming it is to have to react to every single thing that someone says. So

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 38:14

Right,

Dr Alex Dold 38:15

just, was turned off in that moment. Um,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 38:18

right. Right.

Dr Alex Dold 38:19

and then there was a, a month later there was an event in Inverness that the Inverness Outlander Outlanders fan group put on, um, who I'm a member of. And we kind of, we organized the whole signing afterwards, and she signed until 1:00 AM like,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 38:33

Oh my goodness.

Dr Alex Dold 38:34

until every single person had their book signed. It was so lovely. My partner was the, the last person to get, like our book signed. Uh, because every time I meet her, I'm just like, might as well get this book signed as

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 38:44

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 38:44

it's like, I don't, I don't think I've any, not signed versions now,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 38:48

It's amazing.

Dr Alex Dold 38:49

it's, it's just fun to do to like, see her again. And then, I mean, the absolute highlight was that she came to my graduation.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 38:57

So cool.

Dr Alex Dold 38:57

So it's, it's like the coolest thing I was not told for a while. And then at some point I was sent an email saying like, this is top secret. Do not tell anybody, but Diana Galvan is coming

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 39:08

Oh my gosh.

Dr Alex Dold 39:09

doctorate. And I was like, oh my God, I'm gonna be the doctor of Outlander and like the woman of Outlander, like the creator, she's gonna be there. I was like, I was freaking out at home, um, and going like, what can I do? What, what's gonna happen? And I helped write like a press news or like press release. It was published on the BBC news website. And I was like, oh

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 39:30

So cool.

Dr Alex Dold 39:30

brain's like blown. My photo is on. BBC website. Um, and it was really cool. And, uh, like the best thing about it was that she's such a genuinely nice person. Um, I had said beforehand, you know, I'm starting an Instagram account. I wanna share my knowledge, not just in a book that people buy, but like almost face to face so people can watch me on Instagram or Facebook. And I messaged the social media team of the uni and said, Hey, do you guys think we could maybe do a video of her? Here's a wee script that I wrote. Can you maybe like, do you think this is possible? And they were like, yeah, we'll just ask her on the day. And somebody came up to me and her while we were chatting on the day, it was like, um, we would love to do an Instagram reel with you. It was Alex's idea. And I was like, whoa, way to pin it on me. If this goes

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 40:18

No pressure.

Dr Alex Dold 40:19

No pressure. And she's like, yeah, let's do it. And we had this amazing background and like the videos, basically she says, I'm Diana Aldon and I wrote this book and holds up her like first Outlander book. And then I go, I'm Dr. Alexandra Do, and I wrote this thesis about her books. And you can like slightly hear her giggle in the background. then someone from the uni comes in like, we're the University of the Highlands and Islands and we're giving both of them doctorates today. And I thought, like, I thought it was hilarious. And uh, the uni put it up, I think like two days later or something after the actual event. And at this point, so the graduation was in November, where, what is it? Five months, six months, about? After that, we now have 1.6 million views across

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 41:01

Oh my goodness.

Dr Alex Dold 41:03

it keeps going. And there's likes coming in. There's 30,000 likes or something, hundreds and thousands of comments. and the most gratifying thing about it is that people are saying, when can we read this thesis? Because I've put six years of my work into it, and I know there's something there that is interesting to people, which usually doesn't happen with PhD thesis.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 41:21

Right, right.

Dr Alex Dold 41:21

average, a thesis gets read by about five people, like your supervisors and your examiners. I was really lucky that people are interested in it. I can't share it just now because if I want to, well, I do want to publish it and I'm

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 41:35

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 41:36

publishers and I'm rewriting it to make it a bit more interesting than the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 41:40

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 41:40

is. Um, but nobody wants to publish it if it's already freely available somewhere. So I need to kind of be careful how much I share. Um, but yeah, it is, it is a really thick piece of paper. It's. 280 pages. Exactly. Um, and it's, yeah.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 41:59

Yeah, and I think that's one of my questions later is what are you working on, and I'm assuming this is what you're working on, is reworking this for, for public?

Dr Alex Dold 42:06

I'm, I'm reworking it for the public. Um, so I've, I have like a proposal sheet that publishers give you when they think you're ready to submit a proposal, but for that you have to create an outline. Like this chapter's gonna be this, and this chapter's gonna be that.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 42:21

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 42:25

how I split it up, um, introduction, basically. Isn't usable for a book because it's so much literature review of what other people have written

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 42:34

Right?

Dr Alex Dold 42:35

for someone to

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 42:36

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 42:36

Right.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 42:37

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 42:37

then also the conclusion isn't really relevant because it's what academic steps could I take next? Not interesting at all. So I'm trying to. Rewrite this book. And also we're working on a second volume of academic collection of chapters and research on Outlander. So

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 42:55

Great.

Dr Alex Dold 42:56

um, contribu like invite invitations for

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 42:59

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 43:00

at the moment only to previous contributions. Um, and I say we, because I've been made editor or like I made

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 43:06

Oh,

Dr Alex Dold 43:07

Uh,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 43:09

that's exciting.

Dr Alex Dold 43:10

I know. It's so cool. And my name will be on the cover when, when it's like all

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 43:14

Yay.

Dr Alex Dold 43:15

we're talking about like two years. this to be done, but it's kind of, we've started it. It's me and, uh, Dr. Robin Ing, who's a clinical psychologist. So that's really

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 43:26

Oh wow.

Dr Alex Dold 43:27

Um, and Gil McMillan, who was the board in Outlander of season one,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 43:32

Oh,

Dr Alex Dold 43:32

the Gallin historical consultant on Outlander.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 43:35

so cool.

Dr Alex Dold 43:36

working together. and yeah, so we are, we're about to do like a social media kind of almost campaign saying like, have you always wanted to write academically by Outlander? Hit us up. We need people to submit something. So we have a full book, and it's not just the three of us writing it,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 43:52

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 43:53

we want as many kind of perspectives to come in. And right now the new book is gonna be called Outlander, around the World Or Around the Globe, something like that. Because we wanna bring in lots of different opinions, perspectives. There's not much research done yet on Asian countries or

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 44:11

Hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 44:11

and New

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 44:12

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 44:13

how they experience Outlander, are they coming to Scotland? What are they looking for? Um, and then also how, how do they understand Scottish culture and history? It is mainly North America and Europe, that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 44:25

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 44:26

target

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 44:27

be,

Dr Alex Dold 44:27

the,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 44:28

that'll be really fascinating. I'm, I'm curious about the Scottish Australian connection just because like if that there's any interest there. Just because my ancestors came from Scotland to Australia, then to the US so, and I think that happened with quite a few people. So, be interesting.

Dr Alex Dold 44:45

So it's not enough to just say I'm a big fan kind of thing. We need someone to be able to actually support their evidence. If you've never written an academic text before, but you think you can, I mean, give it a try, send a proposal in and we'll have a look at it. Um, I'm gonna shamelessly throw this out here, here. If anybody

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 45:02

Go for it.

Dr Alex Dold 45:02

wants to contribute, we have an email address that's, mean, obviously very cool. Outlander scholars@gmail.com. So anybody that wants to send, submit a proposal, or if you see it on Instagram or whatever, just send us a message. Say like, here's my idea. know if I can do it kind of thing. Uh,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 45:18

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 45:19

want to represent everyone. And one of the unusual things that we're doing is even asking master student to submit, because there are many, many master thesis on Outlander that never get published or never get used for anything because they're not quite there yet. Like a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 45:36

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 45:37

is a high degree, but it's not as like, deep research as a PhD is because you have

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 45:42

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 45:42

you have less to do it. Um,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 45:46

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 45:46

excited to give like younger scholars an opportunity to share what they think about Outlander as well.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 45:52

That's so cool. Well, you'll have to let us know when those are, you know, out and in the works and published, and I'd be interested to read that, especially your thesis. Exciting. Your chapter on film tourism looks at Outlander's Impact on actual Scottish heritage sites. What did your research uncover? Are these sites thriving because of the show, or are there complications that fans might not think about? And this one's kind of like near to my heart, just as a tour operator, you know, I'm taking people to these places and I like to understand the impact of what we are doing, positive and negative, and just kind of think about how we can, improve.

Dr Alex Dold 46:30

Yeah, I mean, the big, big thing is don't take anything

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 46:35

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 46:35

even

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 46:36

Don't take any stones.

Dr Alex Dold 46:37

exactly there, there's a wall at Mid Hope Castle, which is Lalli Brook and the TV show,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 46:43

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 46:44

was basically taken down by people just taking, I'll just take a tiny stone, but every single tiny stone is needed for, you know, to make sure this wall doesn't fall down. So it had to be re

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 46:55

Yeah,

Dr Alex Dold 46:55

and stuff. And we, we don't wanna spend money on reconstructing something just because some idiots, literal idiots took stuff away. It's at Coll and Battlefield as well. The Fraser Stone is obviously a popular place to go. You can put down flowers, but don't do something like pouring whiskey over the stone because that will destroy the stone. You laugh.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 47:18

no, it never would've crossed my mind.

Dr Alex Dold 47:21

It's, that's one of the things why locals get really upset about the Outlander Effect, bringing so many people in, because out of a hundred people there will be one that is behaving badly and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 47:32

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 47:32

one person is leaving the place less good than it is at the point it like when they're leaving. So I think that's like the, the one big thing. Respect to Heritage site, I, I'm not saying that obviously you wouldn't or something, but there's. There's some things that, uh, I don't know if, if a museum or a Heritage site says Do not touch, there's a reason why. Right. So even it's, it won't break. Like if it says in, in one of the really beautiful houses like the Hope Town House, for example,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 48:05

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 48:06

beautiful carpets and I think there's a couple that you're not allowed to step on. That's not because your one footstep would destroy it.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 48:13

But a million would.

Dr Alex Dold 48:15

of thousands

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 48:15

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 48:17

Um, there used to be a thing that IKEA did. They put their flooring out between, like where you go from the top area to the bottom area or something, and it says like, 10,000 feet walk over me every day, or something like that. That is obviously something that was built to last like this

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 48:33

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 48:34

old beautiful houses. It was built for one family kind of walk around there. So you can imagine how little footsteps there would be. Um,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 48:44

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 48:45

and now tourists are obviously more, um, I think there's a big difference between tourists and visitors in the way of, like for me, tourists are the ones that are loud, annoying, destroy something, or go like, no, not necessarily. I think there's every culture has those kind of people

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 49:03

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 49:04

Germans will always complain. About like, oh man, look at all those windows. I wouldn't want to clean those windows. It's a very typical German thing to say. it's, it's obviously like people thinking it's funny kind of thing, or like an American coming in, going like, oh my God, I can't believe how old this is or something. I know that it's crazy, but you can think it's crazy without touching it. Right? That,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 49:25

right.

Dr Alex Dold 49:26

from a historian perspective, wanting to preserve history for like, I dunno, grandchildren to come or something that's really important to me. So you'd also asked if like, heritage sites are thriving because of the show, and that's a definite yes. I mean, the biggest, influx in people coming to Scotland is, I think it's 54% of visitors in 2023 said that they came to Scotland inspired by, by film and tv. That could obviously be outlined or it could also be Braveheart brave. Um, Harry Potter is a big one still.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 50:00

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 50:02

and the Da Vinci Code. another big

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 50:04

yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 50:05

Scottish like heritage site where they filmed. these, it's completely, I love when people get inspired, they watch something, they go, I wanna see this in person. It's absolutely amazing. Please come here. Please look at everything. Also fun fact, most of our museums are for free. So you can just walk in, have a look around, you don't need to spend three hours. Um, something that people really struggle with. I think when they come to Scotland, you guys try to see too much in too little time. I understand that you really wanna see so many great things, there is, especially like, you can't drive as fast as Google Maps says

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 50:40

Mm-hmm. Nope.

Dr Alex Dold 50:41

broads are a lot smaller. Um, and I think sometimes it's better to just take a minute or like even Google beforehand, what are the great exhibits in this museum and just look at five instead of looking at a hundred.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 50:52

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 50:53

Kel, Kelvin Grove Art Galleries, um, what? No, it's called Kelvin Grove Art Galleries, and it's a natural history museum on one side and the other side is an art gallery. And they have an incredibly impressive Salvador de painting. Really big. It's in its own room. It has its own security guard. And every single time I go to the museum, I will go and see that because standing in this dark room, it's Jesus on the cross, and there's a like boat scene below it. I'm sure like people will have seen it. I had seen it before, but I didn't even notice that there were boats at the bottom. You just look at Jesus on the cross and that's it. And standing in front of this painting, it kind of, it makes me feel so humble in comparison to like, there was this one guy that created this amazing piece of art, and we still have it and we only have it because people don't touch it,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 51:41

Right, right.

Dr Alex Dold 51:42

is, I think I should probably get myself a hat that says like, please don't touch it,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 51:46

Please don't touch.

Dr Alex Dold 51:47

that's, that's the most important message. So yeah, I, I love the Outlander Effect on, um, on Scotland in general and like the smaller heritage sites, Larock. That wasn't a, like a location at all, that people would go to it. It was a

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 52:02

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 52:03

townhouse. Um, nothing really happened there, and now they're expanding it so amazingly. I just finished today writing an article for a newspaper here in Scotland about what's kind of happening at Loll or Mid Hope Castle is really called and kind of how local artists are now selling their stuff there. it's all stuff that is related to Outlander. So there's, I have this friend, her name's an rainbow, and she makes amazing jewelry. She takes impressions of a wall. So basically she, she touches, she touches with permission. She, she

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 52:35

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 52:35

she will take an impression of like a piece of wall or for lolly broth. It's the step that Claire sits on when she misses Jamie. So there's an impression of that. And then she turns it into jewelry. So you can wear, like, literally

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 52:48

It's so neat.

Dr Alex Dold 52:49

And it is the, like the thing that you're, you're seeing in front of you and you can touch it on your jewelry and it's one of the most amazing pieces of jewelry that I have. I have the one from the second step of lolly bra as earrings and it's just every single time I look at it and like touch it, go like whoa. just, I've talked to Anka for this article I've just written and she was saying that the thing she personally as a maker likes the best that the impression she takes is obviously one moment in time, 10 years the weather will have changed the stone and you will never get this texture again. So her textures of Scotland I think is like a brilliant way of going around the whole do not touch and like

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 53:30

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 53:31

with you that is super special.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 53:33

I love that. That's so neat. I'm gonna have to check that out. What is it called again? Or does she have like an account that I can share?

Dr Alex Dold 53:38

um, yeah, her name is Anka Rainbow. So

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 53:41

Okay.

Dr Alex Dold 53:42

her actual last name

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 53:43

Oh wow.

Dr Alex Dold 53:43

Tech. So Cool. Right?

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 53:45

I know.

Dr Alex Dold 53:46

Textures of Scotland.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 53:48

Oh, cool. Okay. I'm gonna have to look that up. That sounds amazing. I've seen you, I think I've seen you share some of her jewelry before. Did you a giveaway with her? Yes, that's right. Yeah. That's so cool.

Dr Alex Dold 53:58

had said to her, you need to make bookmarks. And she was like, well, I'll make

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 54:02

so smart.

Dr Alex Dold 54:02

you do something together with me. And like, I've got some, and they're so amazing. Like a little

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 54:08

That's a genius. Well, I love that you call it the, the Outlander Effect. Um, you know, I mean, obviously my entire business is operated around people reading or seeing a show or a movie and then wanting to visit somewhere. So, I mean, I obviously am grateful for that, but also I'm mindful and wanna be respectful of, you know, the culture and the historic sites. And so that's really important to me as well. And I talk, I talk about that to my guests as well. And

Dr Alex Dold 54:35

Yeah. I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 54:35

so thank you for,

Dr Alex Dold 54:36

is, is it Bath that you just recently went to?

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 54:40

uh, yeah, I mean, lots of places, but yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 54:42

Right. Yeah. Well, yeah, but I'd seen, like, I saw the post that you did about it, and I was like, this is brilliant. Like, dressing up, like in one of the novels and it just, it kind of makes like history and books to touch. So I, I mean, that's why we connected in the first place.'cause I just thought it was a brilliant thing to do. Um, and I, I mean, I would walk around in an 18th century dress I could, if it wasn't weird because like that, like dressing, like someone that just puts you into their, like, into the mindset. Like how, how did people sit? How did they eat? What happened when women were on their periods? Do you know, like all

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 55:17

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 55:18

that you don't really think about.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 55:20

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 55:21

really kind of feel it when you're, when you're running around, dressed up. It's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 55:25

Absolutely. Um, doing a dance workshop while in your regency clothing, you know, you're like, okay, how do people dance in the, oh man, this is really sweaty. You know, like, how are they keeping from not smelling bad? So that does it, it brings up a lot of questions, you know, when you kind of put yourself into that costume. And we'll definitely be dressing up in Scotland. I'm sure I'll be in, in touch and make sure we're, I think you were putting, you were putting me in touch also with somebody that does costuming, right. That,

Dr Alex Dold 55:49

She's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 55:50

So,

Dr Alex Dold 55:51

you might have seen that video that I, like, I did that with her as well.'cause she's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 55:54

yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 55:55

just now.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 55:56

I'm so excited to see it.

Dr Alex Dold 55:57

it's, I'm so excited. It's like, I, I wanted like a more modern thing because I don't wanna have like, the really full bag with a bustle and everything kind

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 56:06

Right,

Dr Alex Dold 56:06

I can't wear that to, to my talks. I wanna look kind of like, I'm, I'm a historian, but I'm also here, you

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 56:13

right.

Dr Alex Dold 56:13

like, not, I wanna, I'm dreaming to be in the past because I'm not, I don't think I could survive.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 56:20

No, I would die.

Dr Alex Dold 56:22

I'm lactose intolerant. I can't, like, I wouldn't be able to live there.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 56:27

I love indoor plumbing. It's the best.

Dr Alex Dold 56:29

Yeah, exactly. It's, I think that's the things that you kind of forget about that you really enjoy. Right. Um, get asked all the time, would you like to travel back in time like Claire? And my answer is no, because it's freezing all the time in Scotland, right? Even in the summer, the nights can be really cold. Have you seen what Claire wears when she first arrives? She

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 56:51

Right?

Dr Alex Dold 56:51

have been like, frozen to the bones. There's no way I would've survived this. Also, I'm a woman. I'm shortsighted. I wear glasses. I'm like, I'm very shortsighted. So nobody would take me seriously in the past with the kind of glasses that I wear. I, yeah, like you, I like the, I hate being wet is another thing, which

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 57:11

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 57:11

a problem in Scotland.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 57:13

Yeah, a big problem. Even the things that she wears when she's like fully living in the past, I'm like, are you cold? Just that little sweater.

Dr Alex Dold 57:22

See,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 57:23

It's snowing outside.

Dr Alex Dold 57:24

I know, uh, the, one of the things I keep thinking about, and I'm not sure which book it is, maybe seven or eight or something, it's very detailed, explained how the chamise like the night dress or the, the white under dress that Claire's wearing underneath her corset. How that digs into her skin when she takes off the corset. And I can literally imagine how it feels to pull them outta the creases of your skin. And the whole point of why this is being told is because Claire's in her mind thinking like, I got older. Why does Jamie still find me attractive? Like these creases have gone away faster when I was younger. And just the thought of how itchy it must be when your skin kind of expands again and you've got space to breathe and everything.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 58:07

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 58:08

just, it like, no, I've got like a bad feeling and like running down my back or something.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 58:14

I know, I know. I love my leggings and my t-shirts.

Dr Alex Dold 58:17

Yeah.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 58:18

I'll not survive.

Dr Alex Dold 58:19

And brass, like proper, like modern brass as like any other woman would probably understand

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 58:25

Oh my goodness. I know. And as good as it feels to take your bra off at night, I can't imagine taking your corset off at night.

Dr Alex Dold 58:32

Exactly

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 58:34

Oh, okay. Okay. We kind of, we already talked about meeting Diana Gavel and we'll skip that one.

Dr Alex Dold 58:39

right.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 58:40

I was like tearing up when you were talking about meeting Diana and like, like, oh,

Dr Alex Dold 58:45

it's, it's honestly like I really enjoy talking with her husband as well. He is kind of like my partner, you know, you women go do your thing. I'll stay in the background and just watch you and hold your jacket or whatever. Uh, which is really appreciated. and the, during the academic conference at Glasgow, we had a welcome kind of. You call this like something at the city Chambers of, or the town hall. And it's a beautiful building. It was amazing to go and see it from the inside. And then obviously Diana was the most popular guest. Everybody wanted to talk to her. And I was speaking to her husband and just about like random things he'd said like, oh yeah, we've done a river cruise in Germany before. Where are you from? And that kind of stuff. then I felt really bad. I was like, I kind of need to go and ask your wife a question. And he was amazing. He was like, ask me because I know everything. So he's the first person that reads everything. He'll go through it and discuss it with her. So I didn't even think about it, but obviously he would know. So I asked him what Roger's um, specialty as a historian is. Because for me, in my thesis, I couldn't explain it. There's several scenes where he says like, this isn't my specialty.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 59:55

It's not my specialty. Yeah,

Dr Alex Dold 59:58

And it's like, it's literally just come up in season eight as

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:00:01

I just, yeah, I just saw your video about that too, and then I saw that episode the next day.

Dr Alex Dold 1:00:05

I was so upset about it in my head I was like, I still don't know. And um, her husband didn't know, so he went like, I'll go and get her. And pulled her outta a conversation and was like, it's really important. And then he was like, this young lady has a question for you. We've never heard that one. And I was like, oh wow. So this must be something really special.'cause all the other questions seemed to be like recycled and asked again and again. And then she said, um, I don't know, it's not relevant. And I was like, great.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:00:32

It's not the answer I wanted,

Dr Alex Dold 1:00:34

it's relevant to me. So her

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:00:37

especially as a historian. Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:00:39

I know. So I've, once I put that video on Instagram and Facebook, loads of people commented and said like, what if it's like music of the 18th century or what if it's this or that? And as historians or like with someone with a PhD, we are specialized in such a narrow niche. So you

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:00:57

Like Outlander,

Dr Alex Dold 1:00:58

on like. Yeah, well, not even Outlander. It's like, it's even more niche. It's the exact way that Outlander teaches you

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:01:04

right?

Dr Alex Dold 1:01:05

I don't know everything about Outlander, and you could ask me about the Middle Ages, and I have no idea. I can't even tell you what timeframe the Middle Ages are or what, what are the dark ages? What are whatever uh, this just doesn't happen. And I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:01:18

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:01:18

loads of questions about like, so the Vikings like, no, not my field. I don't

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:01:23

Not

Dr Alex Dold 1:01:23

I like you. I can look it up and I probably know better where to look it up, it's, it's kind of the skill that PhD in teaches you, you know, how to look things up. so yeah, I'm hoping for a mention of Roger's specialty in, in the 10th book. And if it does, I like underline.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:01:43

I will die. I know. I feel like your name needs to be like in the credits for that.

Dr Alex Dold 1:01:48

Right. Diana has just posted on the lit forum where she kind of like, where she started off posting little bits and stuff,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:01:55

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 1:01:55

of her books. And then someone was like, you really should write a book. So she's still kind of active on there. And she says that she enjoys kind of talking to people there. Um, and she tagged me and said, our good friend Dr. Alex dod will know more about literature about Scott Outlander. And I was like, oh my God, I'm your

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:02:13

Defer to a, to Dr. Alex Stoled.

Dr Alex Dold 1:02:15

It's, it's amazing. Um, and yeah, I mean, I know millions of people know of her and that she knows my name and like is actively saying like, I know more about her because she knows the story, but I know how it kind of relates to people kind of thing.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:02:30

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:02:31

it's amazing and I'm hoping that she will write a forward for my, my thesis

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:02:36

That would be incredible. That would be incredible. I'm sure she will. That's incredible.

Dr Alex Dold 1:02:40

be like, that's where I'm tearing up. I'm like, oh

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:02:42

I know,

Dr Alex Dold 1:02:43

this is my life.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:02:44

I know. That's amazing. I just love seeing people's dreams come true. This is just like making my day

Dr Alex Dold 1:02:50

yeah, like when I was like 12 or something. I remember being obsessed with reading. Like I would read all the time. My like fun activity on the weekend would be to reorder my shelves. Like

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:02:59

right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:03:00

them by color and then next time by like, name it maybe, I dunno, this is like an a, d, h, D thing of like keeping myself busy and my mind busy or whatever. Something like that. But I remember someone saying to me, need to stop reading this much. You can never make a living outta reading. And I'm like, look at me now.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:03:19

Look at me now.

Dr Alex Dold 1:03:20

my job is to talk about books to like, like write books. It's literally that. That's all I do is books. And I so grateful that I get do it.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:03:30

Yep. Read books, write books, talk about books. Look at that. Look at this. I love it. Amazing. Um, okay. All right. My podcast, the Brit Lit Book Club and the book Club tour are both rooted in the idea that books can take you somewhere that you can experience a story differently when you're standing on the land where it was set. As you know, I'm guiding a Scottish Book Club tour next summer, and as a tour guide yourself, what do you think visiting Scotland does to a reader's relationship with Outlander?

Dr Alex Dold 1:04:01

I think it's definitely like you get a closer connection to like the fictional work. Like I said, when I first got there, you really understand how long travel times are, and you kind of, if you eat the kind of food that people would've had, like haggis is obviously a big one that everybody

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:04:16

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 1:04:17

If you realize, you know, haggis is this gross mix of all the insides of a sheep because that's what people had, right? And then when you try it, it's not actually gross. The, the only thing that is gross is the idea of eating those kinds of things, but it's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:04:32

Right?

Dr Alex Dold 1:04:33

It's not more gross than a chicken that you then cook kind of thing.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:04:39

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:04:39

Um, and I think it's, like it connects you with the real history as well. That's why I say like, Outlander is public history. I think it's a, it's a two-way thing. So Scotland, going to Scotland connects you more without lander.'cause you understand it better, but then also, um, reading Outlander connects you better to Scottish history because you have this connection through characters and you kind of have an idea of who everyone is. Bonnie Prince Charlie isn't the best represented in Outlander. He's, I feel like he's a comedic relief character. Like, you need somebody that's a bit silly. You can laugh about that. You get annoyed about when he says, mark me for the hundredth time. Um, but still like nobody that has read Outlander will ever go, huh? Who's bunny Pool Charlie. Like he'll be in your head. And if you then end up going to Scotland and have a chance to go, I dunno, battlefield Museum or something, do you get other impressions of the characters of what they're like, what, why was he sore? You know, impressive that people wanted to follow him and like didn't just go like, you know, no point in this anymore. Let's just leave. So I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:05:47

I think

Dr Alex Dold 1:05:48

of them, like

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:05:49

like.

Dr Alex Dold 1:05:49

literature informs the history and the visit, and then the other way around as well. And actually someone else who wrote a PhD thesis about Outlander and her topic. It's not like she's done and she passed and everything. Her name's Dr. Theresa Dokey and, uh, she did hers at the University of Glasgow. And her research was all into this kind of cyclical nature of you watch Outlander, you wanna visit, uh, Scotland, and then you come back home and you go like, I miss Scotland, so I'm gonna watch it again. I haven't had a chance to read it yet, and I think she's turning hers into a book as well. But it's really interesting. That's kind of what your question's getting at the whole, like, it's never just one, they're all intricately connected to each other.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:06:30

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I definitely have people, we do a book club before my book club tours, right? It's like a year long. You know, we read a book a month and then we discuss it and then we visit. But then I definitely like, the conversation continues. You know, we go and we visit these places and people connect with them, and then. We return home and you know, we have group chats that are still going. People, oh, I read this book about, you know, this place that we visited, or I saw this thing. And, um, like you said, the cyclical nature of, you know, you, you read it, you go visit, you come back, you miss it. You want to connect with it more. So I love that.

Dr Alex Dold 1:07:01

it's also kind of like, do you know when you buy a new car and it's a white car, all of a sudden you see white cars

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:07:07

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:07:07

right? So that's what happens when you read Outlander. you will find Outlander references everywhere or see it everywhere or something. So you, you'll go to a museum. That has absolutely nothing to do with Outlander. But then one person shows up, or like the name Bonnie Prince Charlie shows up and you go like, I know who this is because I read this book. And I think it makes people appreciate the history more because they, they don't feel like it's just a tour guide talking at you. You're kind of more involved and you feel like, well, I know Jamie intimately. Um,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:07:37

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:07:38

and it kind of helps, right.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:07:40

Yeah, definitely. I mean, um, you know, I, I have four kids and I've homeschooled all of them and, you know, our whole curriculum has kind of been based around, you read these books and you understand things from books mo mostly fiction, you know, even though it's not all factual things, but I think the things that you can gain from fiction, like just the empathy and putting yourself in somebody else's shoes is so important and just can really help you connect to a location.

Dr Alex Dold 1:08:06

Yeah. And also learning how, what people you don't like or like what behaviors you don't like. It's not

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:08:12

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 1:08:12

kind of, it's like everybody at the moment is talking about how reading is political, but it's not just political, it's historical. It's, it's all these different things and putting yourself into someone else's shoes and you go like. I can put myself into your shoes, but I still hate what you did. That is completely like, you need to learn that as well. And

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:08:30

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:08:31

start my, my classes, I teach literature at Glasgow Uni and I usually start my classes saying, read the book? Um, and then who read half of the book and who didn't read the book at all? So the people that didn't read the book at all, they're obviously just they didn't have time or they were lazy or whatever. There's some sort of reason that is just, that has nothing to do with the book. People that read the book half are most interesting to me. Like, why did you stop? Did you not have time? That's a valid excuse for a student, I think because some, some books are really big.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:09:02

Right, right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:09:02

um, middle March this year. Which is a really big

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:09:06

It's a big one.

Dr Alex Dold 1:09:06

to get. Yeah. And you, you need to get into the style of writing

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:09:10

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 1:09:11

this is like that the topic was intertextuality that we've already talked about

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:09:14

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 1:09:15

it, most of the students said, yeah, they read half of it and then Googled the rest, how the story ends, which is completely fine because I preparing it also didn't have time to reread it entirely. So I read

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:09:27

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:09:27

scenes that I was gonna discuss with them. But I think good education and like being able to talk about literature is also putting into words why you didn't like it. So if somebody says to me they don't like Outlander, that's completely valid. But if you say they don't like it because there's romance in it, that's not a valid reason, right? Because you haven't tried the book then

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:09:49

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 1:09:49

there's not romance from the first second and there's not like right away a happy after a happy ever after that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:09:56

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:09:56

like don't know or something. So I think the, the whole. Point of studying literature is also being able to express yourself and saying like, I like this. I didn't like this. my students usually are really, like, when they first have a class with me, they're really, I don't know, surprised with me when I say things like, I absolutely hated this book. And then they go, whoa, like as a literary scholar, how can you say this? And then I'll say like, because it's not like, that's not my genre. I love. Fantasy. I love romance. I love historical fiction. That's what I read in private.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:10:29

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 1:10:30

for work, I read different kinds of books and then I have to put into words why I like it. And then I still have to talk, talk about it if I don't like it,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:10:38

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:10:39

to teach students to do that. And I usually say that I went to university I think for a total of 12 years, I have gained the right to say, I hated this book,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:10:49

Yeah, you have definitely gained that, right? It's a long time. I have a, you know, 15-year-old daughter and we're currently talking about red flags and you know, like expressing that you don't like things and things that you do like and forming opinions about that. And I think, I think reading even helps with that, you know, just about. Dating and that kind of real life things, you know, I think can be applicable.

Dr Alex Dold 1:11:11

mean, some romantic and you have like men written by women and there will be like behaviors that you go like, this is how I want to be treated.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:11:21

Right, exactly.

Dr Alex Dold 1:11:22

uh, I didn't realize this for a while when I was younger and I was treated quite badly at times. Looking back now, I sometimes wish that I had been more, well not, not literate, but more. Understanding that what I can see in books does exist. It just didn't existed in the men that I spend time with.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:11:41

Right, exactly.

Dr Alex Dold 1:11:42

I'm quite lucky now to have my own Jamie, even though I, he hates it when I say that, but it is like, it's, it's kind of fate. It just happened and we're very happy and he, he's a big reader as well, which helps.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:11:55

Love that. That's so great. I'm happy for you. Okay. If a book club listener is planning a trip to Scotland and wants to feel the world of Outlander, where would you send them first? I'm sure there are like many, many, many, you know, locations.

Dr Alex Dold 1:12:13

the, the first place you should go to is the tourist information because they will have, like, they're literally trained to tell you where to go. the next place I would go is a car rental place because some of the locations you can't get

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:12:27

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:12:27

a car. if you have a car, I would always say Mid Hope Castle, because it's just. that's the home. This is where you wanna go. Um, they have, the first time I went was just after they introduced fees and I think it was three pounds per person. not how cheap it is anymore. I will say that. So it, there is an entry fee, it's worth it. You can actually go inside now into the one room that they have open that is now structurally safe to go in. Um, and I think as like an Outlander fan, this is the one location. If you don't have time for much. Do that one and do Edinburgh because there's some like multiple locations there, like Jamie's print shop. It's just a simple walk to get there. you have a car or even if you don't. Inverness is I think a great place to go, especially if you're a book reader. None of the scenes of Outlander, were actually filmed Inness, so what we see is Inverness on the screen is a place Lin. Um, I haven't actually been there because to me. The series isn't that exciting. Like I, I watch the series as like the average fan. I just enjoy watching it. The book locations are really interesting to me. So you can go to Inverness and kind of walk around and there's, at one point in the book it says like, oh, they went to the Catholic church. There's exactly one Catholic church Inverness. So it's really easy to find. Um, and I actually have a walking tour. That I've recorded for a portal called Explore. So you can basically download my voice telling you about the locations in

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:13:59

Cool.

Dr Alex Dold 1:14:00

Um, that was part of my PhD research before the pandemic, so I wanted to see do people book on a tour if it has Outlander in the name or not. Um, and I had two tours, one that was just called Stories of Inverness and one was Outlanders. Ines. They went to the exact same locations. Um, and before I could take any data. The like tourism industry broke down. So I will never know if that is the case or not, but I kind of ended up with this thing that I can offer to people without actually being there to tour guide them. When you're in Inverness though, you should take a drive or a bus. What's two buses you have to take to get to Club Battlefield from Inverness. If you can drive, it's amazing. Um, or get a taxi or something. And Coad and Battlefield really is this kind of place that I could always go back to. And it's always the exact same feeling. For me. It's like awe that we can stand on this field. Like how likely is it that nothing was built there for the past 280 years? was just last week. It was the anniversary of the battle. It's the 16th of April, 1746. So last week it was 280 years. Exactly. And how crazy is it that nobody's built something in that time? Last year during excavations, they found an unexploded, um, or

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:15:19

Wow.

Dr Alex Dold 1:15:20

thing, which is crazy. They've just announced it again last week in order to kind of hit the, the anniversary with it. And there is, it's, I'm so fascinated by it and the fact how many people lost their lives in just about 20 to 40 minutes of a battle. It's crazy. I get goosebumps talking about it. I even get goosebumps driving on the motorway past it, and you see the sign that's saying like, battlefield. I'm like, yeah, I know exactly what there is. Um, and the museum that goes with it. It is a bit pricey, but it's absolutely worth it. I would totally, if I could, I would go every single time. Um, I was lucky enough to get while I was doing research. There's, if you, the, the museum is structured in a really interesting way. On the left hand side, on the walls is everything that we know from the British perspective. And on the right hand side is everything we know from the Jacobite perspective. So you can kind of see how they're developing along at the same time, but in a very different way.'cause the British were a lot more organized and you can even see that by the wooden slats that are on the wall. The British version ones are very. Structured very clear from the beginning. And the Jack of Bites are kind of crooked built on top of each other. it's not something that has like a notice sign that you need a member of staff to tell you, this is how we created this, um, exhibition. And I, when somebody told me this, I was like, how have I never seen this before? So this is the kind of stuff that I would say definitely go and see. Um, my favorite part about the museum is the point turning point. The Jack kind of agenda and also twining point in the museum. And it gets colder there because there's an AC just above like the turn that you do like it's 180 degree turn. And every time I walk in that I remember that obviously this is it and it's now cold April and it's gonna be a bloody battle. And it just, they, they physically give you goosebumps because it's colder. then you go into all the information about the battle, and I just think like the person that came up with this, it's absolutely brilliant because you're forcing people to experience it whether you wanna or not.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:17:28

Yeah, I've been to, I've been to the ATE Museum and it is really one of the most memorable museum experiences that I've had. I've never noticed anything that you just said, like, you know, I've only been there, I've been there twice, I think. But I, I, I haven't noticed that either, so that's fascinating. So next time when I go next year, I'm definitely going to check that out. But

Dr Alex Dold 1:17:44

Yeah.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:17:45

um, you know, they have that room with like the video. Do they still do that with the, you know, they. Like kind of replay the, and it's just very moving. But, um, wow. That's, yeah. That's really well done.

Dr Alex Dold 1:17:55

Yeah, I'm really happy with most of the people that I talked about out under at Club Battlefield Museum. They're very good in not just saying, oh, outline is bad. Listen to the real history. They will say like, Hey, Jamie Fraser, as you know him, that's not a real person, but I can show you where he would've been if he was a real person. Or Do you want to hear about this other James Fraser that was actually on the battlefield? So they kind of use it in turn. Like, turn it away from the fictional story, but use it to actually explain what's going on.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:18:30

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:18:31

and then when you've, when you've got like all this dread in you, because so many people died and everything, get some soup in the cafe. Best color skin soup I've ever had. It's like a fish soup. Um, then go into the gift shop that has lots of like local exhibitors. So I've mentioned like the jewelry that my friend makes since this year. She's one of the people that gets the exhibit there, which is amazing.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:18:52

Oh, that's cool.

Dr Alex Dold 1:18:53

like, once you've done all of this at Club Battlefield, it's only like a five minute drive to go to CLA Krens, which is an Iron H burial ground. there's quite old like notice signs. These are not the standing stones that inspired Claire and Jamie, but they're the easiest ones to access. So if you wanna relive the whole touching the stones, where to go, where you should go. It's kind of right in between the don't touch and do touch to experience it. So obviously it's not the best to keep touching the stones, but at the same time, they have been there since the Iron Age, so somehow they have weathered it. Um, yeah, I will admit to having done it myself, like obviously there's a picture of me touching the stones, kind of secretly hoping not to travel back in time because as we've discussed, neither one of us would survive very well.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:19:44

Yes. I love that. Well, we are visiting all of those locations on our tour, so I'm glad that you know, we're on the right track and hoping to connect with you in Scotland as well.

Dr Alex Dold 1:19:54

Yeah, definitely.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:19:56

Oh, okay.. I saw that you just presented at a history conference about how Outlander represents Scotland's involvement in the 18th century trans-Atlantic slave trade. Uh, that feels like a side of the story that doesn't often come up in fan conversations. Can you talk a little bit about that? Do you know much about that?

Dr Alex Dold 1:20:13

Um, yeah, it's one of the topics that I discuss in my thesis, um, mainly because the way it's introduced in the books is quite, um, well, it's a very interesting way. I think it's done because it starts off with Claire's husband, Frank, in the 20th century. The Highlanders. So they, he kind of goes in and goes like, oh, they have these traditions here. This is what they do. So he speaks over them. Um, when a local says something, Frank repeats it and then says to Claire, like, you know, so he's not like, he's othering. The Highlanders and then he's mansplaining things to Claire and it kind of, it's something that really annoys me. Um, I mean, he is a historian, so I take, I think we in general as like species, historians love to explain things to other people, but I don't like it when someone already has explained it. I don't need to say it again,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:21:06

Right

Dr Alex Dold 1:21:06

that's like, it broke me up the wrong way. So I looked into this and this kind of behavior of Frank is then. Foreshadowing of what is happening with the transatlantic slave trade. So it's not as like as ugly of othering, like he's not taking slaves or something. I'm not saying that it's the same at all, but you as a reader get slowly introduced to this idea of, here are others, we need to explain them. We are better than them. It's very subtle. And then when you get thrown into the transatlantic slavery. Um, and you hear, especially in the books, because it's all told from Claire's perspective, a sentence that she says, it's like I was outraged, um, by the market, by the crudeness, by the nakedness, but most of all outraged by my own presence. And I think that's a very important statement that like the reader then fields along with her. I don't think you can read and think slavery is a right thing to do. that other people are worth, worth less or something. And I think it's, it's very well done in the novels and obviously it's a very difficult topic. Difficult topic to talk about and it's highly relevant. There was just, um, an auction at a, um, an antique shop near Inverness where they sold slavery shackles, and people were really debating it. It was in the newspaper and everything. Should we still sell these? Does, does the shop owner have any right to them? Should be donating them to So the fact that we still don't really know how to deal with it means we haven't talked about it enough. Right.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:22:43

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:22:43

Um, and I thought this was a brilliant topic to talk about for the conference, which was, not just a history conference, but historical fiction. So it's all the like leading experts in historical fiction that come together and talk about it. And kind of share the newest insights. And I thought, this is something that people don't think about, so I will talk about it. And I was really, I got really good feedback. People were really interested in what I had to say, and I think quite like the fact that. was hidden kind of inside this love story. Oftentimes I think people take the first season of Outlander or the first book of Outlander and just stop thinking about it more because like the transatlantic slavery shows up in the third book. So you really need to keep going to get to these nitty gritty topics. And living in Glasgow, I'm very aware of Scotland's involvement. Glasgow is completely built on the money of slavery. Um, we're the one port that is on the west side of Scotland, so Glasgow's money comes from shipbuilding. transporting slaves for merchants traveling over. And even if it wasn't slaves being transported, it will be what Glasgow calls tobacco lords. But really they're slavery orders because no tobacco plantation would work without the slaves at that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:24:01

Yeah, absolutely.

Dr Alex Dold 1:24:02

the, the tobacco lords are memorialized here with either statues. Lots of streets are called like that. Our main shopping street is called Buchanan Street, Andrew Buchanan, massive slave owner. not saying that we can't. the streets like, or keep the names that are there. But I think we should add little signs to it saying, this is what Andrew Buchanan did, the gla, the City of Glasgow does not condone this, or something like that. You

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:24:28

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 1:24:29

to deal with it. And Glasgow University is very. Um, at the front of kind of pioneering this kind of research, when Voyager, the third book of Outlander was published in 19, don't wanna do it wrong, but I think 94 is the first time it was published. was no academic research. So in my thesis, I basically say, Outlander kind of foreshadows this research

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:24:52

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:24:52

this. I don't know if Diana found the actual information that this has happened if this was her taking an educated guess. And I find it very interesting that, do you know Claire's friend Gala? She's a slavery owner, and the um, plantation that she's at is called Rose Hall. Rose Hall is an actual plantation, so there's records about them, but there's no, at no point was it owned by anybody called Abernathy, which is Gala's last name at that point. So it's like. this fictionalized owner of a real plantation and what is happening there other than maybe gala's, I don't know, bathing in blood, that's maybe taken a bit too far, right? But things that are happening in the series could potentially really have happened in this actual spot. So I, I was, well, both delighted when I found out that this plantation exists, but also really sad.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:25:46

Yeah, it's really fascinating. I mean, Diana must have done so much work and so much research, just with the timing of everything and the history that goes into it. I, I can't imagine, I mean, just so many books and I, I would imagine as a historian, you can appreciate that.

Dr Alex Dold 1:26:05

yeah, definitely. I mean, I'm a, I'm a big fan of a theory called The Death of the Author. Basically, you just take the text. It doesn't matter what the author says because it really isn't relevant, what Diana says Roger's specialty is, right.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:26:18

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 1:26:18

change the text that you have in front of you. It's just an additional tidbit that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:26:22

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:26:23

There's additional books that Diana has written, so the, the Outlandish Companions, they're called. They're amazing. You can get lots of like new information about how she writes her characters, which ones are fictionalized characters, which ones are real historical figures. This is all

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:26:38

All

Dr Alex Dold 1:26:38

information. But for me to say why Outlander is relevant has nothing to do with her as an author. And the entire time while I was writing for me, it wasn't relevant if she would like what I was doing

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:26:49

right. Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:26:50

at some points I obviously, I have to call her out and say like, there's a mistake here. That is affecting what people believe about. I dunno, Bonnie Prince, Charlie, or

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:27:00

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:27:00

even though that was a TV show, not her, but it's, it's one of the comments I got the most from my supervisors, like on the side in my Word document, it was Diana, it's not your friend was one, and the other one was Jamie. Jamie is not a real person. And I was like, yes, I know. But you know,'cause because sometimes you say like. Jamie does this or decides to do this, and then it's really, it's the author that decided this for a specific reason. Like, the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:27:24

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:27:24

to act that way and you need to kind of learn how to write this. And yeah, like, I mean, I'm glad she likes what I did. I'm not sure if she did read my PhD thesis at this point. I've emailed it to her, but 280 pages is a long document to read. Um, so far she's not said it was absolute crap.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:27:43

That's good.

Dr Alex Dold 1:27:47

Yeah,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:27:47

That's a positive then. No news is good news. Right. Um, now that the final season of Outlander is out, how are you feeling about the books and series being over? Although shit, there's another book coming, right. Um, I feel like you kind of graduated at a historic time for Outlander.

Dr Alex Dold 1:28:06

Yeah. I think for some reason, for me, things fall into place like puzzle pieces. Like the fact that I went to Verness and watched Outlander, that was like the first step. I arrived in Verness the very first time that I've ever been to Scotland. I remember stepping off the, like the little staircase off the plane, put my foot on the ground and I was like, yep. I'm bright like this, this is where I belong. And it was this really strong feeling and I, I don't know where it came from. It's never happened to me again. It was just like, yep, I'm happy here. And it, I wasn't even there for two seconds. Right. So it,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:28:38

It's incredible,

Dr Alex Dold 1:28:40

I got my room at the student accommodation, the only room that had like unimpeded view towards Coad and Battlefield. Every other room in the flat had a building in front of it. I could see kind of like, I mean, it was behind the hill, so I saw the hill. Kind of thing, but, but

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:28:56

right?

Dr Alex Dold 1:28:56

did. That was like my room. And I never even realized this until like years later that this was the only room that had this kind of feature. And I just loved like looking out that direction. And that's what kind of my whole life kind of feels like at the moment as well. Like, I'm not saying that I didn't work really hard to

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:29:15

For sure.

Dr Alex Dold 1:29:16

and like I can acknowledge that now, but every single time when I was like crying about like. Getting bad feedback, which wasn't even bad. They just said, you need to change it. They didn't say The first

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:29:28

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:29:28

was perfect kind of thing. I would always kind of go like, oh, I'll never do anything with this. This is never gonna happen, whatever. And then it just kind of like pieces fell into place. It was, I'm gonna graduate this year. Then I get told Diana's gonna be there. Then I get told our book's coming out just a month after that. Um. The fact that she agreed to do a video with me that kind of started the whole social media, like within I think like three days. I had like 500 followers and it was crazy how fast it went up. Um, I'm not at like a massive amount now. It's like just over 2000, but there's 2000 people that want to listen to what I say. About a factual thing and not watching me do silly dances or something, which means a lot to me that people trust me to, to be their like resident historian or something.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:30:15

Yes, absolutely.

Dr Alex Dold 1:30:16

and yeah,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:30:17

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:30:17

like everything kind of keeps going. There's, there's been big discussions with obviously my parents. Is social media really something that you should be doing? You've worked hard, you've paid study fees to get a doctorate. Why not say beauty? And I'm like. I would love to be a university professor, but there's very limited places that are available for people. There's a lot more people that graduate than there is positions at a university.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:30:42

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:30:43

I'm doing a very like, it's like a, I think, 20% position at uni. which is, I've done it for the past four years, and it's always a one hour, uh, one year limited contract.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:30:54

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 1:30:55

waiting to hear can I do it next academic

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:30:57

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:30:58

But it's all kind of, I'm, I'm kind of feeling really positive about it because everything has fallen into place for me. If the uni thing doesn't work out, maybe it's a different uni. Maybe I'm gonna create the Diana on society or something when she passes eventually. Which is something we have to be aware of because she is in her mid seventies, so it's not like she's, she's not my age, let's say it like that. So we have to think about the fact what happens if she passes before she finishes the book. What happens if she passes and she's just this year announced that all of her notes and research material will go to a university in Texas. I think it's Texas a and m, it's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:31:37

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:31:39

Um, and that's like, I'm gonna be the first on the plane to have a look at this and see what did she actually find out? What did she do? Did she make a note to herself and say like, this is all rubbish. I don't need this or something. Or did she say like. This is brilliant. Maybe for later book or something. So I definitely like, that's, that's one of the things I still wanna do. I wanna dig into her brain without her there, because if I ask her, she can mediate it if I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:32:05

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:32:05

at what's on the paper, right? It's just what I get. Um, so if,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:32:09

So

Dr Alex Dold 1:32:10

I go to her and say like. Hey, when you did this, did you

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:32:14

you understand it that way,

Dr Alex Dold 1:32:15

she can, obviously, she can say yes even if she didn't,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:32:18

right?

Dr Alex Dold 1:32:18

her notes of the time might be saying something else.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:32:21

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:32:22

don't think that Outlander is over. Um, with the series kind of ending now, it's, I think there's three more episodes to come out. Um, and then we have a second uh, series of the spinoff series, blood of My Blood about Jamie and Claire's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:32:37

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 1:32:38

out sometime in fall.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:32:39

Excited.

Dr Alex Dold 1:32:40

Um, I'm not, I'm, yeah, I'm so excited. I'm not sure if there will be a third season. It's not really been announced yet, how many more they're doing, but like I said, Lord John is another option, another spinoff series. then really people are not gonna stop traveling. You've already got plans for 2027,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:32:57

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:32:58

People might only now be finding out about Outlander and then they're traveling in 2028 or something. So I don't think that it's gonna, there won't be like a shark decline. I think it'll stay at a really high level of tourism to Scotland for at least five years. probably gonna be, at

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:33:16

least,

Dr Alex Dold 1:33:16

I'm, I'm

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:33:17

yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:33:17

I'm really confident to say it's probably 10 to 15 years that we can be short because Braveheart. Came out in 1990 and that still brings people in there's still untapped markets. Like the Asian market hasn't really shown that much interest in Outlander. So I don't know where it's shown and where it's not shown. But I think there's more to come for that. And then we get to kind of explore how other cultures that are not anglophone cultures that we. understand'cause they're like our own culture. How are they gonna experience Scotland and what are they interested in seeing and that. So I really like, I don't think there's any end. So it's, it's interesting that you phrased it like now that it's over or like, like, like the final season's over. Um, maybe I'm gonna be really bold and say Outlander is never over. Like you can't escape it.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:34:07

I feel like it's time. Travel can't be over. Right?

Dr Alex Dold 1:34:09

exactly.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:34:10

Jane, Jane Austen wrote her books, you know, 250 years ago, and I'm still, you know, there are a lot of Jane Austen fans, you know, still doing tourism because of Jane Austen. So I feel like, you know, it's, it really is endless.

Dr Alex Dold 1:34:24

I met my best uni friend in a course on Jane Austen. So

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:34:28

mm.

Dr Alex Dold 1:34:29

for like our birthdays, we give each other Jane Austen theme things. So I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:34:33

Aw.

Dr Alex Dold 1:34:33

a coloring book and I gave her a playing cards and stuff. She's getting married this summer, so I'm gonna have to find something Jane Austen related

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:34:40

I love that. I love that. Oh, that's adorable. It's brought a lot of people together for me, obviously. So, so, and I think Outlander will do the same and continue to do the same. And I think you're right about the Asian markets as well. There's a huge, um, like Anne of Green Gables, I don't know if you know this, but in Japan there was, I think it was after World War II and, and of Green Gables became. Like hugely popular there, there was even like a theme park and um, so they get a lot of Japanese tour. Yeah, they get a lot of Japanese tourists at, uh, and PE island. And so it's just interesting what, what travels and what doesn't and you know, how long it takes to, to get there and it's kind of fascinating. So it'll be interesting to see.

Dr Alex Dold 1:35:21

there's a show called the Monarch of the Glen that gets shown, I think around Christmas time or something in Australia, you can literally see a spike in visitors after that has aired. You can see a spike in visitors from Australia to Scotland.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:35:35

That's so interesting.

Dr Alex Dold 1:35:36

what's gonna happen with Outlander, like it's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:35:38

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 1:35:39

down a little bit, but obviously. Once tourism summers down, things get cheaper because you wanna keep the people coming and then if it's

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:35:46

All

Dr Alex Dold 1:35:47

people are gonna

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:35:47

people will come. Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:35:48

this like tumbling sensation and yeah, it's a snowball that can't be stopped. I.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:35:55

Yeah. I love that. Okay. Is there a book fiction or nonfiction that you think every Outlander fan should read alongside the series to deepen their understanding of the history? What should be on my reading list for, for my tour,

Dr Alex Dold 1:36:07

book, our book that we wrote,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:36:09

obviously.

Dr Alex Dold 1:36:11

it's a very, I think books like ours are very easy to read because the chapters are, I think it's like two to 3000 words is roughly what we were given as the maximum amount we can write. So you can read one of one chapter that you find really interesting. then not read the next one or something. So if you're

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:36:29

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:36:30

in translations, you read my chapter. If you're interested in heritage stuff, you read the one that I wrote with two friends. Um, if you're they, if you just wanna read something that Diana said, you read the Diana chapters kind of thing. So I think books like those are really good. If. you are not, maybe not brave enough, but like, if you're not feeling like getting a really big old book and kind of get into that, and make your way from cover to cover saying that there are great books that you can read from cover to cover. One of the things I really, one of the books I really like is called Damn Rebel Bitches or A Damn Rebel. Something. and it's about the women of the 45, so the Jack Rebellion with like really cool women that did something. It came out in 2000 and. Craig, I wanna say,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:37:21

I'm gonna look it up.

Dr Alex Dold 1:37:22

I, I know her personally, but I only know her as Maggie. Um, so it's the book might be is either Rebel Bitches or Damn Rebel Rebel Bitches. So it's definitely like a bit, it's a controversial book title.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:37:36

Oh damn. Rebel bitches. The women of the 45 by Maggie Craig.

Dr Alex Dold 1:37:40

Yes, exactly. So I think that's like a great book to kind of get into it.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:37:44

Okay.

Dr Alex Dold 1:37:44

you're looking for like a, more, like something of the time of Outlander or just after it's called, um, bar letters from the north of Scotland. it's like you can get it in in like bookshops and it's from 1730 and this guy Edmund Burt was sent to Scotland to basically. Send travel letters back and say like, this is what it's like. So he go, he talks really badly about how people wear kilts and like, they're not clean in there. So he, he kind of perpetuates this idea of the barbarians in the highlands, which I think is quite fun to read at times. Like, if, if you wanna try out something like this,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:38:24

What's it called again?

Dr Alex Dold 1:38:26

uh, this is what, um, Burt's letters from the north of

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:38:29

Bert's letters. Okay. I'm putting them all on my TBR.

Dr Alex Dold 1:38:32

Yeah.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:38:33

is good. I haven't heard of either of these.

Dr Alex Dold 1:38:35

let me see what else is there that's like really cool. Um, I mean, I've got loads of different ones. Like there's, there's lots of writing about travel to Scotland because of literature. Um, but obviously nothing about Outlander. That's one of the things that I find really interesting, usually. Any research ends kind of in the nineties about like historical fiction, starting literary travel, and then Outlander isn't mentioned and we

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:39:01

Interesting.

Dr Alex Dold 1:39:02

only track Outlander like visitors to Ness kind of after the TV show was. Released, but

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:39:09

Right,

Dr Alex Dold 1:39:10

people that read it in the, read it in the nineties and then traveled, but they weren't surveyed, so there was no place where they could like tick or like on an iPad or something.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:39:18

right,

Dr Alex Dold 1:39:19

yep, I'm here because of Outlander kind of thing. as much as we have data now, this is all mostly based on the, on the TV series, and I don't know if you can make a difference between readers and viewers because

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:39:31

right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:39:32

of tends to at some point. Because you wanna know what they made it or

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:39:37

Exactly. Yeah, and I'll link those all in the show notes too so people can find those books. Those are great. Okay, last question if you could time travel to any moment in Scottish history through the stones, where would you go? Even if it was just for a day and you got to go back, right back home?

Dr Alex Dold 1:39:51

if I were, if I get to go in like my winter boots and a big

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:39:55

Yeah,

Dr Alex Dold 1:39:55

get to take my glasses and lact pills and all that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:39:58

in the, in the summer, in the summertime.

Dr Alex Dold 1:40:00

Some something like if it's like an enjoyable, um, there's a great book series called. Um, St. Mary's Institute or something, which is literally about historians using a time travel machine to go to places

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:40:12

Oh. Ooh,

Dr Alex Dold 1:40:13

history taking place. I think there's 18 books or something. I've read them all. I like,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:40:17

that sounds fun.

Dr Alex Dold 1:40:18

them, love them, and that's what I wanna do. I want like a little kind of capsule that I can go in. Travel somewhere and then kind of watch it without being in the way.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:40:29

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:40:29

it'd be invisible because obviously if you have an observer there, you behave differently. So I'd be an obs, invisible time traveler gets to take like a notepad and stuff. And the thing I really wanna see is everyday life because we have so much record about. Um, the Battle of Aladin or what happens when people are executed or something? I just wanna see a normal family, like how are they living? Is like, is the dad abusive? Is there, like, is there a great romance story? And obviously that would only be like a snapshot, just as much as you can only get a snapshot of like a family nowadays.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:41:06

Right. I.

Dr Alex Dold 1:41:06

I would, I would love to go for like a week straight watch, a different family interact, um, and if I was forced to partake. In society, I would want to go two times. I would wanna go as a man once and as a woman the other time because I think there's a lot to say about what people think of women's lives and what actually happened. I'm very convinced that every woman was suppressed by her husband and whatnot. Like when you get to like the later. The episodes you haven't seen in Outlander yet. This isn't a spoiler for season eight, but at some point somebody says like, um, if you, you should be aware of all people, how much a wife can convince her husband, like what to do. And I think that is very true. I think women had a lot more power than we give them. it wasn't necessarily recorded that way. So that's what I wanna see. I wanna see the gritty of everyday life. I wanna see them use a chamber pot. I wanna see them like figure out how to deal with their period. I wanna, I dunno, I wanna know, like if everybody's in the same room, how do you have marital relations with like the

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:42:13

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:42:13

the room as well, right? What, what do you do? Do you like go away into a different corner? Do you care? Was there anything such as like protecting kids from those, seeing those things? Was it

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:42:24

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:42:24

life, all this kind of stuff and Yeah.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:42:28

That's a fantastic answer.

Dr Alex Dold 1:42:30

I would love to bring something modern back. Something like chewing gum or something. Do you know, like something that

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:42:35

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:42:36

like the time, but just go like. this, but don't swallow it. We just keep it in our mouth because I don't think it makes any sense to people,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:42:43

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:42:44

that the Romans did have chewing gum. So, you know, it's, it's not like everything we have now has never existed. I maybe

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:42:53

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:42:53

lost.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:42:54

Yeah, that's true. That's true. I always thought it would be a fun book series to like, if you did take something back and then to track to see how like, okay, I brought chewing gum back in time and here's how it affected the rest of the world. I, I'm really interested in like, uh, alternate history things like I just fini I'm just watching, uh, for all mankind, which is like if Russians landed on the moon first and like the alternate history or like man in the High Castle, you know, if like Germany had won the war, like what. You know, what would the world be like and always interested in that, so.

Dr Alex Dold 1:43:25

there's a lot of that in fan fiction, which is something that Diana personally doesn't like. Um, I have never read any Outlander fan fiction because it just doesn't appeal to me. And also I don't want to confuse my brain with

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:43:38

Right.

Dr Alex Dold 1:43:38

in the books and what others say. But Harry Potter fan fiction, I like, I ate that up when I was a teenager. That was amazing because you can do so much with characters you already know, and that's kind of the alternate universe kind of situation. Um, and I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:43:52

And I think.

Dr Alex Dold 1:43:53

that's what we want. That's probably like a good thing to end on. We really want to understand where we come from and how things affect our lives. That's why so many people that have sort of Scottish heritage want to come back to Scotland and see where their family potentially is from, because. Knowing your past helps you understand your present and your future, and I think that's why we really, we need literary scholars. We need historians to make sense of everything that is happening now in relation to what has happened before.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:44:24

I love that. Well, thank you Alex. Dr. Alex, dod, I really appreciate you taking the time and it was such a fascinating conversation. You're such a fascinating person. And you know, I've known you online for a couple months, maybe a year now, and it's been so fun to get to know you and talk with you in person. Um, do you wanna just tell everybody where they can find you?

Dr Alex Dold 1:44:44

Yeah,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:44:44

Yeah,

Dr Alex Dold 1:44:44

I am

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:44:45

I.

Dr Alex Dold 1:44:46

and Facebook. On Facebook. It's Alex dod historian. Um, so it's a page you can follow. You can't message me there though, that like the system doesn't allow it. So if you do want to message, um, you can send me an email. Alex dol historian@gmail.com. Uh, no dots or anything in between my name, but on Instagram it's Alex Do Historian. Um, it kind of, it usually works if you just type Doctor of Outlander as well.'cause that's in my bio,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:45:13

Cool.

Dr Alex Dold 1:45:13

that uses that, so that's probably the easiest way.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:45:17

I did wanna ask you, I forgot this was one of my questions in my head. Did you go to the university specifically and say, can I specifically have this title like Doctor of Outlander, or how did that happen?

Dr Alex Dold 1:45:30

So. Well, again, my dad saying, do you really wanna be the doctor of Outlander? And I remember getting so angry about that and was like, if not even my dad, my own dad can see the value in what I'm doing. How am I gonna like explain it to other people? So I was really, really conflicted. I'm also, my, my birth name is Alexandra. So I, as Alexandra and

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:45:55

Mm-hmm.

Dr Alex Dold 1:46:13

is. Probably because I relate to her a lot more. So all the whole, the whole like name situation was a massive kind of headache for me throughout the entirety of my studies. And then

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:46:24

then.

Dr Alex Dold 1:46:24

did an interview at my, um, at my graduation with like the social media team of the uni, and I wanted to put it on social media. And I said like, jokingly, kind of like, ha ha, I'm like the doctor of Outlander now. And the way they cut it together, it's the first sentence of that video. And I was like, oh, wow, okay. I wasn't actually gonna call myself that. I thought this was a joke. So it was kind of like working together. And then people have started picking up and I'm a lot like, I'd much rather be Doctor of Outlander than Dr. Alex. Like Dr. Alex reminds me of Dr. Phil. Right, like I'm, I'm not

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:47:01

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:47:01

a, a weird, like, I'm not doing this kind of like TV show situation where I have to have my title, but also my first name. So either call me Alex, or Dr. Dr. Do because I don't think the doctor in the first name kind of fits together really well. It's very flattering when people message me using the title and like, I worked bloody hard for that. So I

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:47:21

Yeah.

Dr Alex Dold 1:47:21

it into people's faces. Um, but also, like Dr. Of Lander is just something that sticks in people's heads.

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:47:28

Yeah, absolutely.

Dr Alex Dold 1:47:29

my, my Instagram handle isn't DR. Of Lander because I don't wanna really be reduced just that on, just that I'm a literary scholar, first and foremost, with a historian kind of on the side. And I wanna talk about all books. Like I do a book recommendation Sunday where I. Like take a picture of a book that I enjoy in some sort of way. It can be fiction or it can be useful for my research because I just want people to see that you're not just one thing. You can be the doctor of Outlander, but you can also be a literary scholar and I'm also an aunt and you know, all these things like is what makes me up,

Vanessa - Brit Lit Book Club 1:48:02

I love that. That was great. Thank you so much Dr. Alex dod. Doctor of Outlander.